I know this has come up before (probably lots of times), but I think it needs a new thread.

IS SQUARE COUNTING CHEATING?

That’s, square counting and/or recording shots, distances etc on paper.

I’ve had a few people tell me it isn’t cheating.

From my perspective, IT IS CHEATING plain and simple. And if someone wins by counting squares, they SHOULD consider that win tainted.

Most common arguments seem to be:

“It’s in the game and everyone has access to it.”

“It’s an artillery game and real life artillery people use grids and measurements.”


I spose this would be a good thread for a poll, so if it’s ok with senior and his buddies

PLEASE VOTE


{Far as the arguments I mentioned above go…

1./ Having the grid in the game and available to everyone doesn’t vindicate it. The new version of Cludo comes with a magnifying glass, but that doesn’t mean you’re allowed to kill people with it instead of looking over peoples shoulders at their cards. (Might be the other way around).

2./ The real life artillery thing is easy to argue, ‘cause Scorched isn’t real life. It’s a game and games have rules. Lots of games are based on real life stuff, but the limits and differences are what make it a game. You can’t combine a Queen and a horse in the game of Chess, just ‘cause in real life the Queen’s riding one.}

no because its there for everyone to use if they wish

I voted No even though I technically don't square-count, I do baba-bouy-count.

I've got my finger poised over the lock button on this thread [due to its controversial nature, I don't want this getting ugly] but just so you know, the official view is that it is NOT cheating.



originaly posted by gcamp, here:
http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/phpBB2/view ... g&start=15

I hate to pull a cbx here, but your poll is wrong.

"its not cheating in the strictest sense, but it is sorta dirty in my book" - I'd vote for that. The question to ask is really, "why do people think it is cheating?"

the winner of the recent tournament is such a player, and I have already congratulated him and awarded him a trophy, we dont award trophys to cheaters.

I think there are two questions here.
1. Is square counting cheating?
2. Is using paper cheating?

No to both counts in my book. I am not going to count squares or record shot values. Boring!!!

I am also not going to use camera 4 for sniper shots.

The ctrl-g grid is a feature not a bug. Although if you start messing with ctrl-h I will open a can of cowbell on you!!!

I voted yes!

Let's start with a definition. Using the grid as such is not cheating. The cheating part as I see it is when you write down tables, rulers, calculators or other external tools that are not in the game. That is my opinion and I will stand by it.

@BOY
Official view? Err ... what? Just who decides what the official view is. If you mean Gavin's comment you should say Gavin's view. Do not involve the community in that statement. Oh and if you want to make references to Gavin's opinion on official business maby you should revisit this thread.
I strongly disaprove of the threats made in your post and think you are way out of line. An issue a member thought was important/interesting was brought up and is so far being debated in a sensible fashion with no personal attacks or foul language. That you for some reason don't like this topic does not warrant such a strong response.

I feel counting whatever isn't cheating, I come to this conclusion by experimentation. I tried against a bunch of bots in 0 wind to try the whole grid counting (and tried some of shotzu's charts) and all that. I spent less then an hour trying it for the record. And what did I find? I acualy shot much less accurate then I normaly do at about 3x the speed of shots. In 0 wind I feel at this point I should hit on the second shot with a baby missile, not because I'm realy good but because I've spent so much time testing mods and stuff and generaly not accomplishing things in life because of how much I've been playing.

My point is, I think there is still a pretty steep learning curve before you get the whole grid counting thing down. Also, I realize that I can break down my aim like this:

1: I hit A and put the aim thing _right_ on the target, wind or no wind. I then count how many times i quickly tap the arrow keys to aim, I know about how many taps to use for diffrent wind amounts just from doing it a million times. This is my first lob shot, I usualy pick between the 2 angles I am most comfortable with (one is about 50, the other about 70) depending on how far the target is and what I have to shoot over to get there.

2: I look from the targets perspective and get my tank fairly in line with it. I do that to see how far left/right I missed with the first shot. Again, I now have a feel for how many times to tap left and right, if its real close I do the fine aiming in a similar way. I then change the power a bit to change the overall range. I try not to change the angle to aim because to me (this may be wrong) changing the power of a shot seems to have less effect on how far the wind blows your shot then if you change the angle.

3: I miss a few times and usualy get stomped by many of the people that have already posted to this thread :)

Now, I could be wrong, but if I had a much better memory and could acualy start to develope a chart in my head would that be cheating? Or is it only cheating if you like, write stuff down and all. Realy, it seems to be alot like counting realy realy small squares. Maybe not counting, but guessing real hard.

I vote no, its not cheating. But I also would rather do what I do and get blown up alot more then use charts and the (truly ugly) grid. Then again, I see a marked improvment when I play after a few beers, but that is a rather diffrent (and more important) way of boosting overall tank skill. If I ever had a chance to hop in a real tank and shoot at stuff, I hope I'd remember to bring a 6 pack.

Oh dear god, here we go.....

@ BigBear
1. I don't make idle threats, but note that I have not done anything to this thread. Had I thought the discussion was not worth having, again..... officially, I'd have locked it already. The nature of the question is down to the core of the game, so lets dance, nicely. We'll see who gets out of line, won't we.



2. I dissagree that a topic cannot be brought up multiple times "officially". But, there can only be ONE offical view. And that is not to say that views can't change, either. So, on whom better to base the offical view than gcamp? He built the game. Its his site, his servers, if he says it isn't cheating then IT ISN'T. On someone elses property, maybe it is.
What is more, the admins have "generally accepted" Gavin's view.
So lets get down to defining the unofficial view

3. Don't get high and mighty about the community with me, the community view isn't to say that the community decides everything. To this point, the comunity is nicely divided on the issue, and so, cannot have an official view of its own.

LMAO most fun i have had all day.

I have a question that still has not been answered does any one actually use ctrl-g and count the squares?????? PM if you do i will keep my mouth shut i just really want to know. <---- means neutral

I want to be a square counting hogger killer. Any tips?

Are you trying to provoke a reply that will give you a reason to lock the thread or what? Well, I will try my best to be as civil as I possibly can to avoid that. If i fail I sure did try my best.


I am not questioning the sincerity of your threats. What I fail to see is why you are making them andwhat your personal opinion on the thread's 'usefulness' has to do with it being locked or not.


Trying to establish which view is 'law' on the servers is moot and not the issue here. The question is rather if we are 'allowed' to discuss this matter or not. I might be mistaken but it looks to me like you don't think so.


With the sole exception of the 'high and mighty' remark i completely agree with you on this one.


I sure did. And now after thinking some more about it and discussing it outside the forums I have reconsidered. It can be argued how long time should pass before bringing the same thing up again. That however doesn't mean it is written in stone for all eternity. Who knows, I might even reconsider (sidenote: Even back then I wanted the grid removed).

That is about all that I have to say on this matter. Sorry (well not really) if anyone thought I was hogging the space.

Merry X-mas guys!!!

Just watch how HWB does it!!!

J/K Badger

*slips the hit list to Jock*

well, I should clarify, for some of us the issue is worth discussing, for me this issue is basically dead. It will die, I just dont want to see it struggle to long.

we can't stop people from 'counting', I dont think we should bother trying either, we already know its no fun, and to most it is distasteful.

... well, there you go, we discussed it, please forgive a grouchy old admin for being tired of a topic. I will resist the urge to insert the option "I'm tired of this topic" into the poll.

Merry Christmas 2u2 BB.

I still don't consider it cheating to write shots and such. And really if people want to count squares more power to them not going to be real useful if you ask me with wind and the different land contours.

So my question still stands are there people who really count squares in the game??? Can it be proved will it be proved?

Side note does resigning effect your skill ranking?? If it doesn't i think it should. Or have some type of penalty like taking some of the players score off.