Over the last while there have been various suggestions for ways to tidy up the admin roster (both for the forums and the servers). As an atempt to act on people's concerns I'd like to get a consensus on how this should be done.

I guess the simplest approach would be to:
1) Clear both lists of admins completely.
2) Ask for nominations for positions (from others or self).
3) Vote for admins
4) Instantiate those with the sufficient community support.

Does this sound like the right track or is it too blunt? Feel free to propose other systems.

I think you should atleast keep a list of past admins, they should be remebered in some way, perhaps by version?

otherwise the new system sounds perfect.
Kanga

Hi Gavin :

It was a thrill to see this post and no, it wasn't too blunt at all.
I've not had time to properly consider your choices and don't feel
comfortable making a final selection at this time. However ...



On first look, choices 3 and 4 seem less likely to produce the type of
long term benefit that is essential to the survival of the game.

Choice 2 seems ok if the self making the nominations is you.

Popularity seems a risky method of choosing a sea worthy crew.

The only other option I would propose that I haven't previously
proposed is that you evaluate the future performance of those
currently holding titles and after such time that you feel is just,
reorganize the admins as you see fit. If this seems fair, perhaps
you could retire those you feel worthy into emeritus positions.

We've been adrift for a long time Skipper but I'm sure that we'll
get ship shape and stay ship shape with you back at the wheel.


Sincerely,

Rommel

Blunt but maybe the sensible thing to do.

Perhaps a good initiative for people to do whats right for the game.

On the other hand if there are too few people voting you could end up with something worse than you got.

There would ideally be a system where non constructive fighting is frowned upon deeply and some reasonable admin has authority in case of disagreement.

Nip the arguments in the bud before they turn into the bitchfights we all know too well and are responsible for.

There are many additions i would like to make but i think i am clear in what my vision is.

Here's my 'twopence' worth.

All innactive admins should be taken off the 'active' list with the option of rejoining if they return. Maybe a year since the last visit would be reasonable?

A list of active admins and 'dormant' admins would then exist side by side.

There are only two viable options for the appointment of admins IMO...

1/ You (Gavin that is) appoint & fire all admins. As you own the place then being accused of dictatorship would'nt be a problem. Self appointed 'saviours' has recently been proved to be a 'cluster f*ck' of an idea .......it hardly could have called a success could it!?

2/ Players and admins nominate themselves (or others). Democracy has to rule with this option. If 'others' agree then they go on the nomination list also. An agreed number of active admins is decided as 'necessary' to run the show. Voting (one each please) should be done by active players & admin alike. If ten admins are needed then the first ten past the post (after an agreed period of voting) become admin. Maybe a whole month would be needed. Voting should be secret and the result only revealed at the finish. Vote run by Mr Camp and accessed by him alone. No arguments over the results then??

Any current admins then have the opportunity to either stand and fight their corner or remain as players..............or not.

What do you bunch of tarts think??

I agree fully.

The only problem I see with the popular vote would be mutlitple accounts that users could create to vote under different names.

I'd be good with Gavin appointing those he felt would manage this the best and put them in charge. They would then be responsible for deciding the number of admins needed, hiring, firing and such. I strongly believe the community should have a large voice in the matter but not the final voice.

I sent Gavin my thoughts on this......but would like to add that there's always been... and will continue to be ....a great core group of players here.

The problems arise when someone thinks the game is about them and their ideas instead of the game .

The game is about fun, fellowship and learning about good folks from around the world......where else can you do that in this world.

Sure there's a-holes....every country in the world has them. Eventually, they move on and we still have the game.

Its always there ...all you have to do is ... log on......soon someone shows....and you can chat, dig, napalm and yes even hammer away.

Theres alot of folks I miss....I hope they come back when they can....but I also know theres alot of folks I have yet to meet.

Cheers guys....lets play some scorch.

Although i trust gavin to make the right picks he probably has better things to do, he could pick a management with some authority.

2 neutral and reasonable moderators who have the power to correct other moderators in case there is a controversy if they cant make a decision gavin would have the ultimate say.

this prevents Gavin from being overloaded with trivial stuff and gives an incentive for people to work it out for themselves, and work together instead of sabotaging each other or just plainly bashing others in public.Its unacceptable behaviour for an moderator- the moment that happens you lose the moral high ground and any authority in the eyes of the general public.

its just one way of doing it, there may be better ways.One thing you could do it is look how its done elsewhere.

http://forums.wesnoth.org/

Looks like a decent example to me if they can have gun banning discussed in a reasonable way like this why cant we? Not because its inevitable, as i showed.

There must be an open discussion possible about anything, but as soon as it turns ugly(this is not when there is an argument one disagrees with) a moderator must correct it, not behave like the person who went wrong.

Altough i havent spent a whole lot of time on the forum there, if you just look at the layout of the forum it suggests a inclusive culture where anyone can contribute.

Here at the moment it doesnt, openly charges without real arguments agains people threats to ban people, doesnt sound very inviting now does it?

Any changes in the way things work around here should take this into account, in my opinion it is key for creating a healthy place where people like to come back to.

[quote="pastor of muppets"]The only problem I see with the popular vote would be mutlitple accounts that users could create to vote under different names.[quote]


Good point, although I'd have thought that registering to vote & having a confirmation would be easy enough to do?

Don't worry PoM, I have no intention of standing for re-election. I am a hothead with a love of confrontation apparently.

Hey if your in here and Rom doesn't delete this and split it then move it respond quickly and I'll join you in main.

Hi Gavin

I think that is a very good idea, maybe even including some of the proposed modifications.

As far as I can see there are 6 admins involved in this; Apache, Chopper, Viking62, Pastor of Muppets, Rommel and Loke. To my knowledge they are also the only ones active at the moment. It would be logical to fire these and let the community decide if any of these should be allowed to return or if new blood is needed. I would like if you reserved yourself the right to veto any one amongst those 6 if you deem that they would not serve the game and community at the best of their abilities.

Loke

I didnt even think of cheats, nice catch.

So the community would offer a selection with Gavin as the filter. Sounds good to me.

Kanga

Is anyone French? I've always been aware of a lack of French people. I'd go for language skills, home country and time zones if I could choose. Spread things out and cover all the bases so they belong to us?

Hi Gavin :

Having taken some time to consider the choices you
presented in depth :

Choice # 1 Appears to be the best option of the four.


Not pulling my suggestion, just giving you a timely
answer to the question, as it was presented.


Regards,

Rommel

P.S. to POM - I am not so presumptuous as to think that Gavin
requires my help moderating his thread on a very serious topic.

However, if he mentions a clean up, I will be happy to assist.