Graphics card

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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:17 pm 
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Not sure, been reading about such things for a while, some major developments have occurred lately, but for that price, I doubt it'll have any acceleration and I'd be concerned about it swamping the USB bus.

But for just displaying some explorer windows or something, I'm sure it'll fine, although I'm not sure what would happen with Aero or flash..

But I don't know and cba to look it up atm
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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:05 pm 
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id expect the performance to be awful. usb2 is about 60MBs max. ye olde 32-bit pci was 133.

first ive seen of them, though. i had a search and there are usb3 ones http://www.sunix.com.tw/product/vga2788.html.

note that they say:
"Movement of windows on the desktop is smooth, with no trail or shuddering."

which seems kind of like mcdonalds saying:
"Our burgers contain real chicken, with no dog entrails or shredded newspaper."

"what do you mean? what do you mean? there's no trail or shuddering. what do you mean?", they blurt out. which makes me a little suspicious.


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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:33 pm 
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The USB2 interface doesn't 'have' to be the problem, can just compress the crap outta the data being sent through it, but just need a pretty hefty box to decompress and the stream through the VGA.
That box is not that, but can be done. Look @ VNC, run sweet over 100Mb :D
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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:05 pm 
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vnc is a different kettle, i think. you can send a lovely video over 1mbit these days. doesnt mean you can connect a graphics card to display it on to a parallel port.

there was a reason they moved from pci to agp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_de ... Main_buses


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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:07 pm 
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psu mods

this is a fun thread for documenting this kind of thing. people often pay extra for PSUs with nice quiet fans, so maybe this'll be useful to someone somewhere as one way of saving a few £'s.

this was my last:
Attachment:
oldpsu.jpg
oldpsu.jpg [ 31.37 KiB | Viewed 1018 times ]

i think that's a silenX fan rated at about 11dB

new antec power supply turned up, so i'll do similar with that. i'll test it and burn it in a bit, check it's not DoA or faulty, then open it up, chomp off the old fan and splice on a new one. bit of heatshrink wrapping and a cable clip, and it should be good to go.

i ordered a thermalright fan rated at about 13dB for the new one. so, for £47 + £7 for a fan, i'll hopefully have a nice sufficient PSU that'll be as silent as any costing twice as much.

a word of warning for anyone who may attempt similar. PSU components store a lot of charge once they're disconnected from the mains and you could probably still get a shock. you can test that by turning off the power at the wall and turning on the PC (youll usually see the motherboard LED light up a bit and the fan start to spin up before the PSU is drained). be careful and dont electrocute yourselves please thanks.

i'll post a pic once i get around to doing it. maybe tonight.


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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:48 pm 
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Nice idea Lappy.

I would like to make and a note under it though (you all knew I would).

The more expensive power supplies tend to have better efficiencies, so for a given load from the PC, the PSU will draw less power from the wall socket thus costing you less money in electricity (a hidden cost).

The power loss of PSUs is generally through heat through cheaper components within the PSU.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it is simply converted into another form of energy. The light bulb above your head for example (I'll assume an old type of light bulb for simplicity).
A 100W lightbulb is not giving off 100W of light, it's easy to tell that because they get extremely hot, which is the inefficency of the technology used to convert electicity into light.

With that in mind, the more expensive, more efficient power supplies will therefore give off less heat, which means they'll require less cooling, so the fan can spin slower and therefore quieter.

Although Laptops post is a very good one for the those more concerned about short-mid term cost, it is not a solution for everyone.
It still applies to more expensive PSUs though, if you spend £30 more on a more efficient PSU that comes with a crappy fan, you can swap out that fan for a quieter one costing £7-10, rather than buying a PSU costing £120 that's giving the same result.

Please note also, that a more expensive PSU does not mean a better or more efficient one, although it is generally true, there are rip off mercents in all businesses.
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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:36 pm 
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i cant argue with that : )

i just did a couple of sums. this is that antec http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Antec/VP550P/5.html (80+), this is one of those lovely 80+ gold seasonics http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Seas ... 0FL/5.html

id call my low average 120W at the wall, so going by those graphs, it's about 82% vs 88%

6% of 120W is 7.2W. for the real world, let's say 15p per kWh in the UK (and climbing). 7.2 * 24 * 365 is about 63kW per year. i make that about £9.50 a year. £120 PSU vs £54. if i used it 24 hours a day at 120W, that lovely seasonic would pay for itself in about 7 years : ) (it'd probably die after 18 months, but...)

120W 24h a day is conservative. make it 200W for 84% vs 91%, and it's more like 3 years 7 months.

there is something in it. find a silent 80+ gold for £85, and it really would pay for itself in under two years, if you used it 24/7 at 200W.

(unless ive messed up my sums, which does happen)

*'course, i was already selective in choosing the most efficient PSU i could find for the money. that antec isnt bad at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:00 pm 
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Laptops Daddy wrote:
i cant argue with that : )

i just did a couple of sums. this is that antec http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Antec/VP550P/5.html (80+), this is one of those lovely 80+ gold seasonics http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Seas ... 0FL/5.html

id call my low average 120W at the wall, so going by those graphs, it's about 82% vs 88%

6% of 120W is 7.2W. for the real world, let's say 15p per kWh in the UK (and climbing). 7.2 * 24 * 365 is about 63kW per year. i make that about £9.50 a year. £120 PSU vs £54. if i used it 24 hours a day at 120W, that lovely seasonic would pay for itself in about 7 years : ) (it'd probably die after 18 months, but...)

120W 24h a day is conservative. make it 200W for 84% vs 91%, and it's more like 3 years 7 months.

there is something in it. find a silent 80+ gold for £85, and it really would pay for itself in under two years, if you used it 24/7 at 200W.

(unless ive messed up my sums, which does happen)

*'course, i was already selective in choosing the most efficient PSU i could find for the money. that antec isnt bad at all.


Yea, sounds about right, I've run some numbers before and come to around the same kind of figures.
Bare in mind tho that's a VERY nice 80+ gold that doesn't even have a fan at all, so the components in that are going to be absolutely TOP NOTCH.

Just had a look for something more sensible that's Gold rated.

You're gonna wish you hadn't continued this thread Lappy.

Sorry mate

Not sure what the power supply is like, I've read 'some' good and bad things about BeQuiet.

Realising that you're SOOooo gonna kick my ass the next time you see me in game, I am officially stepping aside from playing when you're about :D
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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:29 pm 
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nice find. yeah, id buy that. looks nice. i probably wouldnt have bought that this time. dual 12v rails put me off a bit, that and only 4 SATA. sounds lovely for a mid-range. i might want just a little more headroom, case i ever want to test out a more hungry nvidia with it down the line.

definitely one to remember. you cant go far wrong with antec from my experience. ive heard people say they dont like them, but the build quality's usually pretty good and they're always a step up from generic.


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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:40 am 
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Laptops Daddy wrote:
i'll post a pic once i get around to doing it. maybe tonight.

'tonight' meaning 'a couple of weeks later'

here:
Attachment:
splice.jpg
splice.jpg [ 93.75 KiB | Viewed 937 times ]

this one had a nice two pin connector for the fan. if i could have been bothered, id have added one to the new fan. i couldnt, so i just cut and spliced it. it wasnt the neatest job, but... a nice tip when you splice wires, is cut them like this:
Code:
--====
   --===

that way you have a staggered join that looks a bit neater once you've soldered. bit of heatshrink stuff around the red, then an outer piece around the two.

here's a confession. i didnt test to see if the fan was spinning up before i soldered etc. i just told it that there'd be trouble if it didnt work, screwed it all back together, and, of course, it didnt work : ). i ended up redoing it with a cheap akasa fan - the thermalright was too low-speed. it's now silent and cool to the touch.

take a look at this:
Attachment:
coil0.jpg
coil0.jpg [ 48.36 KiB | Viewed 937 times ]

that's a piece of coil that was probably floating around in the factory. i found it resting a half cm from the switch. there are no clean rooms for cheap psu's, i guess.

the output cables were all tangled and bundled together like it was thrown together by a factory worker turning out 20 an hour, so i untangled the mess a bit and retied it.


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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:27 am 
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Just a quicky to let you know I'll be doing the same as Mr Daddy sometime before new year probably with my PSU.
PSU in question is an OCZ ZX 850W, pics @ here you can flick through the other pages for the review from TechPowerUp.

The fan I will PROBABLY be putting in is new to the market and is the Antec TrueQuiet 140mm. I saw an unboxing on youtube the other day and have since had a 'quick' look around for other reviews and it's looking promising, however I will be checking more thoroughly before buying, specifically to check that the PSU will be able to control the fan speed, I'm sure it will as the PSU only appears to use a 2 pin connector, but I wanna be sure first before spending LOTS of money on the fan (£10 for a fan is A LOT).


Why am I doing this to an already expensive PSU?

Because I skimped a little (£30) on the PSU to get some other things, where I was going with a Seasonic 850W which I knew turned the fan OFF below 10% load, but I stupidly made assumptions about the OCZ unit at the last minute. The fan in the OCZ unit does not turn off and is quite loud even at very low load. This is extremely annoying as I hardly ever shut my system down and it sits(gets tape measure) 8 feet from my head at night.

I have already spent about £140 or so just on heatsinks and fans in an attempt to get an inaudible system (at idle) and having this POS bastage PSU ruining my peace and quiet is driving me nuts.

I will take a few pics like Lappy and post the difference (using a db meter on phone to give some numbers to my impression).
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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:44 pm 
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PeanutsRevenge wrote:
The fan in the OCZ unit does not turn off and is quite loud even at very low load.

^ having a fan ticking over at any speed at all makes a big difference in a closed box like that. there's no convection airflow, y'see.

PeanutsRevenge wrote:
I have already spent about £140 or so just on heatsinks and fans in an attempt to get an inaudible system (at idle)

my current main is completely inaudible, all but the hard drive (one green WD that sounds like a city AC transformer by comparison). ive spent about £10 on fans and reused old sinks ive had for years. it is on its side, desktop style, with no side panel. i long for the day when SSD are worthwhile sizes (and affordable). im thinking about a 160GB just for windows

PeanutsRevenge wrote:
I'm sure it will as the PSU only appears to use a 2 pin connector, but I wanna be sure first before spending LOTS of money on the fan (£10 for a fan is A LOT)

don't be surprised if it doesnt spin up. get a £2 'almost silent' akasa to go with, just in case. theyre no more than 10dB or so (guessing) at minimum speed (they'll turn at 5v, i thnk), which is a cat breathing in your ear, more or less. 11dB rating is inaudible to my ear - that's about 900rpm ish on quiet fan, from my exp.


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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:47 pm 
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[quote="Laptops Daddy"]
my current main is completely inaudible, all but the hard drive (one green WD that sounds like a city AC transformer by comparison). /quote]

Then it's either not your 'main' rig as in the "hex core, 6850" or your definition of 'inaudible' is different to mine.
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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:46 am 
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PeanutsRevenge wrote:
Then it's either not your 'main' rig as in the "hex core, 6850" or your definition of 'inaudible' is different to mine.

tis that 'WD green' comment. i turn off hard drives im not using - a couple of wd black would drive you mad. you know how it is, peanut. im used to having 2 or 3 PCs within a few feet of each other. they need to be silent.

that '6850' or whatever, is very nice (passive cooler, as i mentioned further back in the "thread"). it needs a little silent 80mm when it's under pressure. otherwise, i have 1 120mm fan on the cpu, turning slow enough so you can read the label (with no speed control), one more in the psu doing similar, and that's your lot. im a cool 65c under load. idle cpu temps report as room temperature, give or take. (17c, i wish, in "december").

by 'inaudible', i mean that with no hard drive "connected", you cant tell it's switched on without looking to see if the fans are spinning. anything less, and id be breaking out the meccano strips, thermal epoxy and rubber bands "etc".

the trick, ive found, is to orient yer chassis so it's dekstop style, and to use horizontal-fan-mount sinks so you're not drawing hot air from elsewhere and youre giving convection a chance. (that, and cool-running hardware choices, ofc)

idle:
Attachment:
temps.png
temps.png [ 64.79 KiB | Viewed 878 times ]

no threading (furmark):
Attachment:
temps2.png
temps2.png [ 63.21 KiB | Viewed 878 times ]

i cant be bothered to do a full load test. if it overheated, id know it. (3d performance drops to zero when the card gets too hot).

id call 65-70c my max acceptable temp for the cpu. i'd struggle to hit that without adding a side panel.


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 Post subject: Re: Graphics card
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:55 am 
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