I was just trying to make fun of McCain with my avatar of Anna Nicole and her hubby but thank you for all the views and response. When thinking about who to vote for,my issue is this God damn war. Not war really...our troops won the war in 4 days...then the OCCUPATION started. We need to get the hell out of Iraq! If McCain gets elected we will still be there in four years; come on people....you know that's true. If Obama gets elected he said he would pull our troops out in sixteen months.If he is elected and fails to do this I will be the first one to criticize him. AMERICA!...OUR TROOPS ARE IDLING IN THE KILL ZONE!!! LET'S GET THEM BACK HOME!!! VOTE FOR CHANGE!!! VOTE OBAMA\BIDEN!!!

I am against the timetabled withdrawal, it's one of the things that concerned me watching the Vice Pesidential debate the other night.

The troops need to withdrawn asap, yes, however, coming out just because it's been scheduled is stupid and careless.
If the conditions are not right at the time, ALOT of harm could be done over there, however, if they then did not withdraw at that time, Obama and co will look like liars.

I do hope that the Iraqi army will be ready very soon so we can all leave them to their own game.

I agree with Peanut. But I do notice that a lot of people are thinking on the same lines as stoner.

But the one thing you have to understand is that neither candidate will pull our troops out until it is safe to do so. Not Obama, not McCain. Obama simply words it differently to play up to his supporters.

Obama has a 16 month plan, yes. But he has been very careful to point out that his plan WILL change depending on what happens on the ground.

McCain simply tells it like it is. We are not pulling out until we win. Basically until it is safe to do so. Both plans are exactly the same. Do not kid yourself. Obama has to make his sound differently for political reasons. However, this is why he is constantly defending his position.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPMTGIh6N6I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpv5RRki ... re=related

Especially watch this one. The entire press Con. and then tell me you still want Obama controlling the war in Iraq.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuBLRP-vH08&NR=1

I read somewhere a while back (in the last two years)that the U.S. was building at least one U.S.military base in Iraq (somewhat like we have in Korea,Germany and other countries as well). Does anyone know if this became (or, is becoming) a reality? The U.S. military way of thinking always has been to have a military foothold (bases) in foreign countries (especially after our involvement in a war).
My whole point here is: If we have plans for a base (bases).... These areas become a tour of duty for our troops over a very long period of time. Re: S/Korea is a 1-2 year tour(I was there for 1 year)-Germany is a 18 month+ tour.

I only bring this up because of the time lines promised for withdrawal. Not to mention....In our current economic state....It will cost Billions more to bring all that U.S. equipment (Tanks,Hummers,tents,Trucks,Heli's,etc.)home. It has always been economically cheaper to build bases & leave the equipment....rotate out troops on a "Tour of duty".

Edited: Rumors of permanent bases http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40372.html

A must read: http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/is ... 0bases.htm

Can only say-Wow, http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... y/iraq.htm

Long term communications facilities: Quote: A senior defense policy expert for the American Enterprise Institute, Thomas Donnelly, told the Sun that the kind of investment in the communications system is similar to the systems established during the Cold War in West Germany and more recently in the Balkans, two locations where American soldiers are still serving today. "This is the kind of investment that is reflective of the strategic commitment and intention to continue a military presence in Iraq," Mr. Donnelly said. "This is one of the indicators of an intention to stay, these kinds of communications networks."
Link for recent statement:
http://www.nysun.com/foreign/amid-talk- ... teps/7680/

Note: All links copied from the web-not my express views->For informational/reviewing purposes only

My brain hurts-taking a break;)

Well, I agree with everyone here...sadly I am scared to death by Pre. Bush right now because we don't know if he will go to war win Iran or not...anyway whats the definition winning a war. We cant define...what if there's no suicide bombing for 1 month and no fighting does that mean we won the war...no no no...we did not because they are using guerrilla warfare which is fight and hide they are probably recruiting people. The war I think would never end...as long as people are as extreme and have that kind of ideas as they are...the war would still continue. So in the end, even if Iraq gets its control...we would still have these bombing and deaths...it wont end...soon or later some other dumass will try to take the government or as soon as the same al-qaida groups that have been US allies will ask for money and when the US rejects....there we go another fight will break out...a domino effect will be started and the never ending war comes to life one more time. Same thing happened after soviet union left Afghanistan. The CIA was giving funds to Osama...and once the war stopped what happened all those people who were fighting didn't get anymore funds ... that's why they are fighting back...I don't know if you guys believe me or not but because my parents from Pakistan...they know these things. So in the long run...about 10k or 5k troops will be stationed there I think...we will never leave Iraq...its just like troops stationed in Japan, South Korea, and Kuwait and etc. Its hard to say if Obama will pull the troops back...even if he manages to capture or kill Osman...its hard to say the war will stop or if the troops will fully withdraw.

Sorry guys for the long history and opinion.

That's ok, One. Anyway, the definition of "win" would be when Iraq can take care of itself. Once that happens, they are on their own. I'm sure we will have some military presence there to assure overall stability of their government for some time. Just like you've mentioned.

" ... the definition of "win"

A casual search should reveal the fact that after being kicked out of Iraq several years ago by President Hussein, big oil is once again back in business in Iraq. This was one of the primary objectives.

We are in a strange neighborhood, in the middle of a gang with a purse and a knife. We've killed at least one and wounded many but the crowd isn't leaving. In fact, they are getting larger and more boisterous. Perhaps there is enough money in the purse to buy safe passage.

There can be no win in the traditional sense of the word.

Support the economy, drive a Hummer. If you want to be even more patriotic, do it in Iraq.

And now ... Back by popular demand ... It's Mean Gene, the Dancing Machine! Take it away Gene!

I'v herd the U.S. is going to spend 30 million dollars on a huge add campain to paint out troops in a positive light. Democracy at the point of a gun is not democracy,no matter how you spin it. They don't want us there. I believe there was a poll in Iraq about 2 years ago that stated 9 out of 10 people wanted us to leave and 5 out of 10 people said it was ok to kill our troops. So why are we still there? We have put the right people in place to make laws that say nobody can sue the U.S. or Blackwater for wrongful death. This leads to abuse of power where the abused have no path to justice. All we here in America's main stream media is "U.S. air-strike kills 30 suspected insurgents." Alot of the time it's followed by "Iraq official claims 7 children among the dead." There is no follow up, not even a "Were very sorry" from a talking head. How is that winning harts and minds? Forgive me,...(trying to calm down)....but...HOW IS BLOWING LITTLE KIDS INTO RED MIST GOING TO HELP ANYTHING?!......................(deep breath).............Is that what "shock and awe" has boiled down to?! You can't shock and awe some one who is willing to die for his or her cause. Our troops are being picked off,one by one.......and the gang IS getting bigger. We were wrong to go there, far to heavy handed in the fighting and wrong to stay.I think someone wanted a 51st state. Let's restore our standing in the world,if we can.VOTE OBAMA\BIDEN!!!.........p.s...The 30 million will be spent in Iraq,for T.V. spots and radio adds on the state run media.

Stoner, of course the people don't want us there atm, we're occupying their home country.

How would you like it? Oh yea, you didn't hence your 'independance day' (It's similar).

A fair amount of the reason is due to you lot leaving last time you went there under GWB's daddy!

They will hopefully come to thank us, but in the mean time, no matter how much good they see us doing, we are all doing the wrong thing for the right reasons (other than the oil of course)

Killing women and children or better yet, wiping out entire cities, is a very effective and demoralizing weapon against those seeking glory even if Mr. McCain's official policy is that the Uninted States of America should not acknowlege these things publicly.

Our Unspoken Foriegn Policy :

"You keepa making a fuss and Big Sammy ... Big Sammy will kill your whole family, KAPEESH! We trained Saddam! He was nothing! There are many Saddams. Maybe we make you new Saddam, eh? You be a good boy and go tella your people what we say.

Sergio"

"Roger that Blue Eagle, looks some sort of a party.
Circling back and arming weapons as we speak sir!
I'll be showing the video tonight in the Officers Club.
Should be a good one.

Have some party ballons you filthy bastards!"

If you want to say "we were wrong to go there", that is a valid opinion. But regardless of whether or not we should be there, innocent civs will die. It happens in all wars. The simple truth is, if you don't want civilians to die, you don't go to war.

Their are several things that can happen if we pull out too early. Neither politician will be willing to risk commiting political suicide. That is exactly what will happen if we pull out before the Iraqi security forces can handle their country. You know, the vietnam war was not popular either. And the same was said about that war. What then happened when we pulled out?

There is no doubt that the occupation of Iraq has not gone well. And i'm pretty sure it will be a very very long time before the US makes the same mistake again. But for now, we have to finish what we started. BOTH candidates know this. Don't kid yourself into thinking Obama will pull out in 16 months regardless of whether or not it is safe to do so. If that were the case, why the timetable? Just pull them out now.

What happened after you pulled out and why did you pull out?

You don't need anyone to tell you, it's all well documented history.

Without going into what I think about it, that is the only reason that makes any sense.

Its all documented indeed, but there seem to be very different interpretations of what that happened.