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  • in reply to: Ranking Idea #43517

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    Then influence of these factors is so insignificant that result rather depends on others that i mentioned.
    Just the whole thing isnt working, IMHO.

    in reply to: Ranking Idea #43513

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    @deathbal wrote:

    At first I didn’t understand this, but now I do. Someone could sit there, get 100 kills with 900 shots using baby missiles. Does that make him better than 100/100 with funkies? No it doesn’t.

    Exactly.

    But again, you are taking into consideration extreme cases.

    Extreme cases just make pronounced what is wrong.

    You can buy shoes said to be waterproof and walk in the city while it drizzles and small puddles here and there. And then you say – yes they are, so your friends also buy them. And there is an army general who decides to buy such for his army going into country with many brooks. And as army steps into brooks they got their feet wet, and all catch cold. Because things looked fine with just drizzly weather. And nobody tried it in extreme case.

    A little forced example but I hope you understand…

    Deviation that is brought by such inaccuracies in scale of thousands kills total can be way too much. Well it is.

    But if you combine a few good ideas you get a better, or more interesting ranking system than kills only.

    Yes, it is your topic about ranking system… sorry for trashing it with all that…

    @loke wrote:

    One kill with a bbm is more “skilled” than two with a DH – agree?

    Er… I would abstain of declaring identities of different weapons number of kills… Don’t you agree that if we gonna use it as a skill-determining factor we should first figure the ratio… basing on results of certain players which we consider skilled I suppose 😉

    If an average player uses predominantly small weapons then he needs about 3 maybe more shoots to make a kill, while when using funkies/DHs it drops down to 1.x shots pr kill(or even less).

    Somewhat wrong figures. Average kill ratio is less then 3 shots per kill, and thats with ! all weapons together, taking into account that average player’s most kill-providing weapon is funky! And funky average kill ratio is 54%, which consists of worse results of average majority and much better results of skilled minority.

    If a certain amount of kills are reached one can say if this player uses many shoots to kill with bbms or fewer using the WMDs.

    Well again, kills show only kills, no way we can judge about amount of shots for that…

    Why not?

    This is simple.
    I played about 3 hours with one guy today. Nobody joined. But several times I checked server list. Beginners was full, and many names of main server players. Though – there is another thread going on now – usual problem is that main full of noobs while beginners stays empty…
    So I had to play games with only one comparatively new guy. And 15 minutes passed since I gone I saw many people on main…
    Sure it was – easy kills easy victories. So does that say my skill is low?

    Again an extreme case example but hope it tells you the main point. What if just in time you play rarely someone to make a challenge? No matter what reason is.

    In fact all many-game-wins-possessing players from time to time have such periods of domination. You check stats next day and see someone got +several of them. Most likely it was similar situation.

    The better your opponent(s) is(are) the lesser become your chances of surviving a round, getting a kill, winning a round or even the game. While when on the opposite, one on one with a noob may result in 10 kills+10 round wins+1 game win.

    All this true – on paper.
    But basing on my own stats… to hell the stats, basing on what I see in games for myself and many others – and I play pretty much and in different periods of time with different players – such things are too much determined (besides one mentioned above) by complex socio-psychological factors, and conditions of game.

    If you use this… again it will probably to bring too much deviation in many cases.

    Keep it simple at first complexity always manages to sneak in somehow 😉

    Heh I think this thread became so complex already that no one except its co-authors reads it 😯

    @trat wrote:

    Loke, the way I understand the current Skill level calculation

    Quite stupid situation in discussing this mysterious skill level without knowing what it really is…

    Trat, you would read all that rubbish that took me 1 hour to type, show some respect to my labour :mrgreen: May we assume (in still absence of official information) that the person having this ridiculous thing higher then all others knows it better from experience of its long-term observation in different circuimstances during the whole period of growth?

    it does take into consideration of the Skill of the players you kill or that kill you.

    No it does not, go into extended rankings and find player Aim with diamond on avatar, time played is very small, targets and killers are mostly noobs, but “skill” is higher then yours…

    The Skill level also takes into account the time played. If a player can get 10 kills a game, with 1 round win (10 kills, 9 deaths), the player’s Skill will go up slightly. Keep playing games and the Skill keeps rising (even though you are not getting any better).

    Depends on current level. For me, with my above 3000 such game(s) would cause its significant fall. Because it is lower then my average density of score.

    As for determining the level of weapons used to get kills (which is a good idea), an easier way would be to use the Money/Kill stat, since more money is earned for smaller weapons than for larger weapons. This would only work if the money earned on interest was taken out (for a laugh try sorting by Money/Kill, the top player has $400k and only one kill).

    If you do that, result will be absolutely identical with Loke’s calculations. Money SPEND on kill could be a measure, if it were not for baby missiles being free so its users have too much advantage…

    @deathbal wrote:

    Digger and heavy riot bomb I think both should be 9. Baby diggers should be 10.

    Now I go into serious offtopic (sorry again DB) but I use mostly regular diggers and often they fail to do hole deep enough to kill, causing only serious damage to chuteless person. But, I see many players using baby diggers and it is often a 1 shot kill (dont speak about falling from brick cases). It makes me wonder – shouldnt be baby digger less effective in this aspect if it is ‘baby’ and much cheaper?

    @loke wrote:

    Here it is:

    skill + (gamewins*5) + (winratio *(skill-1000)) + (killratio * (skill-1000))

    Yeah!
    skill = skill * skill + skill / skill – skill.
    Exactly what I was thinking of it!

    Even assuming some misprint, I dont see this to be the real formula.
    It has nothing about your recent events.
    5 rounds without score will make my own drop by several hundred points.
    Changing of my winratio/killratio are so insignificant (with my huge total history) that cannot affect such variations.

    If facts are needed i can say (though it is really stupid business now – arguing about this thing we could just learn from official comment instead of all this discussion…)
    Just repeating things what I said before, in my long post.
    Yesterday my last game was 7 round wins and 23 kills, skill ratio in the end above 3400. Today last one it was 1 on 1 game with something like 8 kills/5 wins. Skill about 3200.
    Though since yesterday kill ratio increased by 0.1, win ratio increased by 0.8.

    Please pay attention to what says person not knowing any formulas but a little observant.

    in reply to: Trucing and tracers #43680

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    Sure it is breaking truce.

    Though recently there are many new guys who like truces much… they first truce with 3-4 their neigbours but after couple shots elsewhere, according to all rules :mrgreen: inform one of them about ‘end truce’ while person still works on killing some other target and kill that person…
    Then comes the turn of another ally… So the smartest trucer wins round…

    I find this strategy rather convenient – in our old fashion truces there was so much risk of being killed after all other players are dead, but this approach really helps to avoid it!

    Seriously, in cases like that it is obvious that you already have advantage to think twice about you further shot… so much time to use a ruler and calculator without that usual hurry!… :mrgreen:

    So…

    Trace to death trucers!
    wait, thats not what I want to say…

    Truce to death tracers!
    something wrong again here…

    Death to tracer trucers!
    this way maybe?..

    in reply to: Ranking Idea #43505

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    Sorry for the tone, don’t trying to look ‘the only clever person’ just find this topic boring though have to defend my viewpoint once I interfered…

    in reply to: Using my nicknames #43673

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    I am not for protecting any names. In many respects I agree with Jock’s point. Come and use pizza or anything for free, just don’t pretend some other peculiar person, on the move inventing and saying aloud “explanations” why different rank, no avatar, bad playing etc etc, when there are people who dont know real person enough so can really believe in all that. And later real person who you pretended to be will have – at best – misunderstandings caused by such behavior.

    Jokes and clownery are not a crime but there should be a limit.

    As you cannot invent 100% precise formula to measure playing skill, you cant give a formula or certain definition to say when it is joke and when it oversteps the limits. Though in both cases you can have understanding given by your feelings.

    Unfortunately many people don’t have or ignore that feeling. They are either kids or criminal by nature, it doesnt matter (though I hope this one was first), because in both cases thing what stops them is authority. That is why post here.

    TY for understanding and taken measures Apache.

    in reply to: Ranking Idea #43504

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    Hi Loke,

    Furthermore its just a “rough n dirty” approximation of how armslevel could identify the skillful player

    It could not and it does not. The calculations you made show perfectly, it is really far from skill.

    Try to imagine a combination of average armslevel and shoots pr kill, does that do some justice.

    Only if you mean shoots per kill applied to certain armslevel, giving less points for same value of kill ratio with higher armslevel, that is what I said, then yes, otherwise no.

    Yet another factor is who player X kills or is killed by, does he meet capable opposition or are noobs his favorite prey

    Not a factor at all.

    As earlier you tried to measure ‘means’ now there are ‘circuimstances’, these are things that can influence upon skill – if you shoot only funkies and play only with noobs for a long period of time your skill highly probably will go down – but they are not current moment skill and have nothing with it, because all what is possible or probable exists in the imaginary future, not present day reality.

    in reply to: Ranking Idea #43502

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    @~FREAK~ wrote:

    BTW Guardian Angel…

    Your posts.

    Almost all of them…

    Are like a book!

    😀

    Wow you must be able to type really fast or you sit there all day posting a reply.

    To me they look horrible but… TY Freak :mrgreen:
    That long one took me about an hour… 1 hour of typing instead of killing 15.18 persons!

    You seriosly do need to write a book!

    Make it on scorched 3d or sumthing!

    God forbid!
    I hope such disaster never happens…

    @loke wrote:

    I think its really difficult to “measure” the skill of a player, but one thing that hasn’t been mentioned is what type of weapons they are using. How about using the kill*armslevel 10+kill*armslevel 9+etc/total kills, then you will get an average armslevel of the weapons used. If one thinks the current armslevel is too high or low it can be corrected by multiplying it with an appropiate modifier.

    The average armslevel will indicate if this player is hitting his targets spot on or just funks and dh´s mainly.

    Ehm… *cough cough*
    Cant argue with first sentence, but…

    Nice formula Loke!

    We have player A, making 5 kills with 10 shots of baby missile and 5 kills with dh. One dh.
    And player B making 10 kills with 30 shots of baby missiles.

    Calculation:

    A (5*10+5*2)/10=6

    B (10*10)/10=10

    And if it took player B 100 shots to make his 10 kills? No matter!

    Player A is noob and player B is veeeeery cool!

    Is it something wrong here?

    Only… the whole thing.
    You measure dumb result but not effectiveness which is the skill.

    Played enough Jinx and One to say that seeing them at the bottom of ‘skill chart’… Let me check, wasn’t the date of your post 1st of April?

    You do count kills with funky and do not the way they being gained.
    These two are far more effective with funky then majority of players (btw far more funky players).

    To fix the omission you made we need to base not on total kills but on individual kill ratio for each weapon.
    Yes, ON AVERAGE one kill with funky or dh is easier then one kill with baby missile.
    But average player gets one kill per several funkies. And some players do use funks much better and perform multi-kills quite often. Try to get 3 with funky, usually it requires no less then baby missile accuracy hit of certain spot. But with your formula, ehm…

    And I’m pretty sure these two would have much higher kill ratio for funky then most of other players.
    And yes higher then their own for smaller weapons.

    So according to essence of your idea, higher kill ratio with weapon of higher armslevel should give less points.

    This way we could get something more realistic then current indicator.

    But working only on main, cause as I have mentioned in many mods the very idea of kill ratio is doubtful.

    @deathbal wrote:

    Loke, excellent posts.

    LOL!!!

    Vibrant waves of warmth through your body and pillar of bright light streaming from above with glittering sparks merrily roaming around, and felicity, felicity!

    Er… was it something like that db? :mrgreen:

    in reply to: Using my nicknames #43670

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    Don’t think this can be solution…
    As in my case, i use not only countless word combination with pizza, but also several more that are known.
    Imagine you have Deathbal registered, and someone just uses ‘DB’ or ‘Deathbol’ or another way – the point is for sure ppl who know you well wont be deceived in any case but it is always matter of people that dont really know you enough and by such actions they can get some ‘impression’ which later will be transferred upon real you…

    in reply to: HELP #43654

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    Well i’ve seen that person and I also suspect it the same person who was advertising his site several days ago (admin Jinx was there that time).
    Agree that he must be muted.

    in reply to: Ranking Idea #43495

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    Just recalled, in fact I decided to reply to this topic after one guy in game asked me odd question: is ‘skill ratio’ depending on low angle shots? So I told him that i reply here and say what i know about this ratio, but it gives me another idea about what we could have in stats.
    Would be nice to have a diagram for each player about angle usage, on X axis – angles 0…90, on Y – number of shots made. IMO would provide really interesting information about players.
    Also a diagram with rotation directions, but in this one indicate not shots but kills. I bet pretty lot of players would have significantly more kills in 4 specific directions :mrgreen:

    in reply to: Dictionary #42326

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    @orcacommander wrote:

    no ns means nice shot

    A blonde, driving by a farm, stops near a farmer and asks: Excuse me, but why that cow doesn’t have horns?
    Farmer: Well… Cattle can cause damage with it’s horns so we saw them off. Sometimes we use acid for this purpose. Finally there are breeds without horns at all. But the main reason why this cow doesn’t have horns is because it’s a horse.

    in reply to: Twice game victory #43631

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    I agree with it, but i think that in case disconnected player had more score he probably was not a ‘loser’ but got connection problems, and in this case giving victory to remaining one not really just… As not really just giving either 2 victories in one game to one person :mrgreen:, or giving victories both to remaining not winning person (after another got disconnected) and after disconnected winning person returns and they play game to end – to that second actually winning person also…

    in reply to: Ranking Idea #43494

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    You – will not. But as we know this game is a drug giving lot of pleasure and making people addicted, and for some people it also has pronounced hallucinogenic effect.
    Example of this – several persons from team server top 10, who dont play at all on main or beginners. If you join when they are playing, they dont reply to greetings, dont say anything, if it is last rounds try to kill you quick with funkies or sandhogs and then disconnect when game ends, or in early rounds disconnect at once when you join.
    If all you need is game with bots you can have it offline and nobody will interfere (unless you seriously schizophrenic), so I assume the purpose of their playing is seeing their names in “top 10 list”, probably giving them some special kind of satisfaction.
    On main also there are pretty lot of players which like to play only games they can 100% win and they do not join games where they see very good players…
    And such ‘dependable’ stats indicators, are like a candy for that sort.

    in reply to: HAPPY BIRTHDAY JOCKSTER #43622

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    Happy birthday Jock, may your aimbot be always young!

    in reply to: Dictionary #42324

    Guardian Angel
    Participant

    ns – means f… or f… you or f… you all, depending on context.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 38 total)