This topic contains 15 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Laptops Daddy 9 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #6090

    Thrax
    Participant

    While the format is supported, Ogg sounds used in any weapons or
    accessories do not play.

    After trying an overhaul of ScorchWars with the wavs to ogg, only the
    ambiant/Music/Boid sounds play in ogg; all the weapons are silent
    unless using wav.

    I did ask for Midi and Mp3 support on more than 1 occasion, but the
    requests were shot-down by other devs.

    ps:.. after swallowing my revultion of OGG and converting it all, i was
    almost happy… the mod-folder dropped from 115mb to 50mb on the
    drive, and from 62mb to 25mb in Rar compressed packs..

    #47036

    parasti
    Participant

    What does MP3 have that Ogg Vorbis does not?

    #47037

    Rommel
    Participant

    I agree with Thrax. Consistency is a good thing. Since this topic pertains to reduced mod sizes, I’ve got something to add.

    I recently redesigned all of my mask files and changed them from 24 bit BMPs to monochrome BMPs. The original mask file size of 13 K drops to 1 K but the core kicks out the file for not being a valid 24 bit BMP. Is all that color detail really required in a black and white bit map mask file? I think not. I spent a great deal of time making new masks that I had hoped would allow me to overcome the placement problems that Rob and I discussed in another thread. The idea I tried to implement was to use up to 13 monochrome BMP mask files to replace one 24 bit BMP currently used to place objects.

    Not really wanting to load everyone up with several additional 13K files, I have abandoned this attempt to work around the problem for now. Specifically, the issue is, The mincloseness placement tag does not work very well. Objects are being placed on top of each other even when there is adequate space for them to be spread out without overlapping. This is much like the problem with the tank placements currently being expereinced by the Scorched only crowd. See this post.

    I have an idea that I believe will adress this issue satisfactorily but it would involve rewriting the core.

    I’m growing very tired of trying to achieve perfection and it appears that I’ll have to settle for close if I’m ever going to get the Apoc Champions server back on-line.

    I must go destroy the world now. Krieg ohne Hass

    Sincerely,

    Generalfeldmarschall Erwin J. E. Rommel

    #47038

    Thrax
    Participant

    @parasti wrote:

    What does MP3 have that Ogg Vorbis does not?

    The ability to play smoothly on older computers.

    #47039

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    you are joking? in the days of hd mpeg4 video?

    what computer made in the last 20 years can’t play music files?. any scorched capable computer should be fine with ogg music.

    i do like the idea of midi files. i would suspect most modders would struggle in creating them. might be cool for retro pacman style sounds; can’t really assume people’s sound cards would be up to much more in reproducing it.

    rommel, a mono bmp won’t be much smaller than a 24bit bmp. just restrict it to 2 colours.

    #47040

    Thrax
    Participant

    Fine.. Whatever.

    I’m getting tired of trying to help others and getting spit on.

    Ogg don’t play on a pentium 2, and take’s most of the power of a pentium3.

    This was a Bug post. Unless you are replying to say it’s fixed, don’t bother.

    I’m pulling all the mods but 1, and seriously considering flushing scorched totally.

    #47041

    imported_gcamp
    Participant

    Thanks for the report Thrax, I’ll look into and fix it.

    Sorry for any hassle caused.

    #47042

    LigH
    Participant

    From my experience, Ogg Vorbis plays pretty well on an AMD Duron 800 MHz. Well, a Pentium 2 may have been much slower…

    But how about decoding the sounds once into samples in RAM, and play them later as PCM. And if the RAM is small, then you may have to write out WAVs — only once, not each time they play.

    #47043

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    @thrax wrote:

    I’m getting tired of trying to help others and getting spit on.

    i wasn’t spitting on you, thrax. i was mostly agreeing with you*.

    any ‘686, mmx, 300+ whatever should be fine with ogg, shouldn’t it? (that’s 1997 era roughly?). i’d like to see a pentium 3 that can run scorched 41. (really).

    spitting on people isn’t really my thing. (depending : ) i’m not sure you qualify.

    *in case that’s not true, don’t post comments i don’t agree with and we’ll have no problems.

    ps:
    for what it’s worth, i’m aware of the time and effort you’ve contributed, and do appreciate it.

    #47044

    .–.ShoCkwaVe.–.
    Participant

    Ile have to stand by thrax on this issue..

    though sometimes i can manage to convert a proper .ogg without
    hearing skip-restarts in sounds wich usualy triggers when players
    all shoot at once.. some of us notice more then others..
    who dont know what they are talking abut.

    ogg needs to be fixed… or I vote .mp3 support replacement.

    dont get me wrong..
    it’s great that we atleast *have* ogg now and it saves file space..

    but what’s the point if the sounds go haywire?

    #47045

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    @.-*-.ShoCkwaVe.-*-. wrote:

    …who dont know what they are talking about.

    totally depends on the codec (as with mp3). blaming the ogg container is silly.

    there’s no reason ogg shouldn’t be every bit as good as mp3.

    just, as an outsider: constant bitrate is the way to go. and haywire sounds are more likely a symptom of lossy compression/overhead. aren’t they? are you sure mp3 would make a difference? what mp3 codec would you suggest?

    don’t you think ogg conforms more readily with the open source thing?

    #47046

    Brain Damage
    Participant

    mp3 encoders/decoders, for how much open source they can be, they are not “free as in freedom” ie have patents on them

    i have yet to see any link to benchmarks, tests, documentations or anything that proves that ogg is any way inferior or more resource intenvie than mp3, instead, i’ll provide myself reference to a codec comparision test and show you that goo performed better than mp3

    midi is different issue, while it has no patents pending, most el-cheapo cards doesn’t have an hardware synthetizer, while windows correct this by bundling a software synth wich is used as backuè system, iirc there is no stndardization for macosx, linux, freebsd, ecc..
    i’m not saying that it’s impossible, but just that it might be hard finding a standard so everybody could hear it

    #47047

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    @Brain Damage wrote:

    …finding a standard so everybody could hear it

    hmm. wavetable synthesis. v interesting. i’d say it’s as much about hearing the sounds as they’re meant to be heard. even among proper sound cards, quality of wavetables varies a lot.

    *spits on damage*

    (i’m just kidding ; )

    #47048

    LigH
    Participant

    If you really want to break a battle over codec quality from the fence, then make your own ABX test (*) with hundreds of listeners… or trust those made by Roberto J. Amorim, member of HydrogenAudio and owner of the RareWares audio software archive. Those you may find interesting will be:

    64 kbps multiformat, results
    Note: includes LAME MP3 at 128 kbps for top-range comparison

    128 kbps multiformat, results

    Fact is: The MP3 technology as such is limited in quality per bitrate. A good encoder (especially current LAME versions) can keep up in average bitrates, but more modern technologies (Nero AAC, Vorbis aoTuV) surpass all MP3 encoders easily when you concentrate on bitrates lower than 128 kbps and allow them variable bitrate (quality-level based encoding).

    And to Brain Damage’s suggestion: “Wave Table” means to prepare (pre-decode) all samples as PCM in the RAM? Then we have a common idea.
    __

    (*) ABX tests reflect the average opinion of all participants how well they could tell apart original and transcoded sounds, and how annoying they found the difference. It is a subjective result — and as such preferable for for psycho-acustic compression technologies, because only human brains have the real formula which part of the sound is important, and software will always only try to approximate it.

    #47049

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    really, from my perspective, mp3, ogg vorbis, lossy audio compression in general – obsolete remnant from the 90’s. (especially in this context). (kind of like cd-rom’s and pentium 3’s ; )

    lossless audio files, uncompressed audio files, they’re insignificant in terms of storage requirements/modern-day hard drives. it’s not worth the price.

    again it comes down to thrax’s argument for mod upload speed.

    @ligh wrote:

    And to Brain Damage’s suggestion: “Wave Table” means to prepare (pre-decode) all samples as PCM in the RAM? Then we have a common idea.

    i think we were talking midi only.

    i’m a litrtle out of my comfort zone (which is cool i guess : ), but, so, i’ll leave u to it.

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