This topic contains 19 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  hobbesme 13 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #2758

    Willis
    Participant

    I know this is a simple fix but, on the official servers, could the moves per round be taken down by I dunno, at least 5?

    It simply feels too high and on occasions (not too often when it gets to this point) where that round skip comes into play, its just anoying waiting for people who cannot “make the shot”.

    For fairness I added the poll; a simple yes/no for those who play.

    #12583

    NoMoreSteve
    Participant

    Typically, I do like the long games. It allows to save up some $$$ and get the cooler stuff in later rounds. Is 10 too many? Perhaps. 7 seems like a good number. I like 7. 😀

    NoMoreSteve

    #12584

    hobbesme
    Participant

    @willis wrote:

    moves per round [reduced] by … at least 5?

    @nomoresteve wrote:

    Typically, I like long games … save up some $$$ and get the cooler stuff in later rounds.

    I think Willis meant the number of moves per each round, not the total number of rounds per game.

    I think that 15 is WAY too many for TEAMS server since one team or the other should be able to demolish the other team in 10 moves or less. If not, both teams are either awful or are stalling.

    It’s harder to limit the non-teams server to 10 or less rounds since (like tonight) we can have 15+ people. Even at an average kill every two shots & each player targeting a unique player, that’s approximately

    log[2shots](16 players) >= 8 moves

    And that’s only IF all players kill every two shots targeting unique players (BTW, I know this inequality doesn’t exactly represent the scenario described, but it’s a close approximation).

    Thus, for non-teams server, more rounds may be a necessary evil — even if it can sometimes drag on & on.

    Speaking of which, our game with 10-16 players lasted 1:40!

    #12585

    Ebonite
    Participant

    I think the rounds per game should remain the same at 10 per. Turns, or shots, per round could be reduced slightly, say to 12 from the current 15, and more for the team server, like hobbes described.

    I asked for the 10 second extension per shot on the team server, and would like to see it remain so, but I missed the discussion on extending the regular server by 10 seconds per shot, and would like to see it reduced back to 35, though the buy time should remain at 45 seconds. This would significantly reduce the total time, if that is what’s at issue.

    #12586

    imported_gcamp
    Participant

    This is getting complicated 🙂

    I am running three servers,
    1) The bots server (which no one seems to use and I may stop running it)
    2) The team stats server
    3) The no bots stats server

    So far people seem to be saying:-

    Reduce the team server turns per game (to 10??).
    Reduce the time per move for the no bots server (but leave the buy time the same).
    Does this look right?

    #12587

    Anonymous
    Participant

    Yes thank you hobbesme for clearifying my opinion, I should have worded myself better.

    Camp, Also (as how this topic came about to exist) consider to reduce the number of turns for the non-team server, often it does get to this point, heck I can see rounds ending around 7-8 turns remaining. But even 3-4 taken off could change alot.

    What I see most often when people get down to the final 4-5 turns level (and not completed), people are stalling, maybe someone is under a pile of dirt, or on a weird angle cliff, but in either way people are hitting in every direction ahead behind left and right of the opponent, but they just won’t (or cannot) hit the opponent. Simply black – n – white, IMO if a person cannot make the kill by this point and time, so be it, they dont deserve to get the chance.

    Yes I know this can backlash, just the other day one level had F5 winds and weird mountain positions, I spent half the time trying to get one particular kill, then I bagged another, then a 3rd. The final opponent I couldnt get in the time remaining. I’m ok with that, mostly but not limited to, this time I was not dead, but others who die at the first shot were going nutts.

    #12588

    Willis
    Participant

    ok sry that post is mine, didnt realize I was logged out then before I could make THIS post class started and I had to wait.. neway yeh dat me Willis.

    #12589

    hobbesme
    Participant

    @willis wrote:

    Yes thank you hobbesme for clearifying my opinion, I should have worded myself better.

    You’re welcome; I was just providing my analysis, not trying to correct yours or Ebonite’s.

    @willis wrote:

    when … down to the final 4-5 turns … people are stalling, maybe someone is under a pile of dirt, or on a weird angle cliff … IMO if a person cannot make the kill by this point and time, so be it, they dont deserve to get the chance.

    1) I totally agree with this for the TEAMS server only.

    As a TEAM, if you can’t kill the other team off — no matter what the circumstances — in approximately 10 rounds or less, oh well; no team wins the round, move on to the next round.

    1.a) Willis suggested reducing the teams server’s number of moves per round to 10.
    1.b) Ebonite suggested 12 moves per round.
    1.c) NoMoreSteve suggested (I think) 7 rounds per game (see #2.b below)

    1.d) Either 10 or 12 moves per round sounds fine to me.

    The teams server rounds are inherently faster since two teams are working cooperatively to eliminate all the players on the opposing team. Thus, the rounds end faster than non-team rounds since there is a concentrated effort by both teams to eliminate all opposing players AND ALL players do not need to be eliminated — only all players on the opposing team.

    For the most part teams server rounds last 10 minutes max — sometimes as low as 2 minutes for first round carnages! Whereas non-teams rounds most often last 10-20 minutes, as long as 25 minutes!!

    Although the teams server rounds are MUCH faster than non-teams server rounds; the total number of game rounds for teams server is 5 whereas non-teams is 10!

    The obvious time-disparity is that teams server games are very quick — fewer, quicker rounds per game; while non-teams server games are VERY long (occasionally 2 hours).

    2) Although I do not suggest reducing the number of game rounds for non-teams, I do suggest increasing the number of rounds per game for the teams server.

    2.a) Maybe not so high as 10, …
    2.b) but more like NoMoreSteve’s Lucky Number 7.

    Just something more than 5 to allow the underdog team the possibility of overthrowing their oppressors for a game win.

    @gcamp wrote:

    1. Reduce the team server turns per game (to 10?)
    2. Reduce the time per move for the no bots server (but leave the buy time the same).

    1. As stated in 1.a, 1.b, 1.d above, 10 or 12 moves per round for teams server seems reasonable.
    2. Ebonite’s exact quote was :
      @ebonite wrote:

      I asked for the 10 second extension per shot on the team server, and would like to see it remain so, but I missed the discussion on extending the regular server by 10 seconds per shot, and would like to see it reduced back to 35

      I assumed Ebonite meant the non-teams, no-bots server when he said “regular server”. Is this correct, Ebonite?

      If it IS correct, then I agree with Ebonite to reduce the shot time to 35 or 40 seconds on the non-teams server ONLY. The teams server should remain at 45 seconds since team players need to team-chat in order to prepare their collective team shots.

    #12590

    hoopy frood
    Participant

    Better than how many turns per /per teams/per etc.

    How about a new option when setting up the servers that would allow you to automatically set turns/per round based maybe on howmany people start the game.

    That way it would automatically adjust each game?

    Thoughts?

    #12591

    hobbesme
    Participant

    @hoopy frood wrote:

    How about a new option when setting up the servers that would allow you to automatically set turns/per round based maybe on howmany people start the game.

    That way it would automatically adjust each game?

    I’ve had that idea as well.

    Unfortunately, it fails in real games since the number of players DRAMATICALLY changes from the start, end, & during each game — anywhere from 2-16 players.

    I’m assuming by your implied player-number dynamics that if a low number of players start a game, more rounds will be played. However, if more rounds are played, then it provides a long game where many new players can join & consequently slow down the game.

    If a high number of players start a game, less rounds will be played. If all but two players drop out, then the game ends quickly (however this is not nearly as bad as the previous paragraph scenario).

    Also, it would be folly for the game to dynamically decide at the end of each round the number of more rounds to play based on the current or past number of players in the game. It would just get insane trying to develop a reasonable algorithm to implement this.

    It’s also not feasible to lock the number of rounds based on the starting number of players — and then to block other players from joining. This would be very irritating to players that wish to join.

    In theory, dynamically determining the number of rounds to play based on the number of players is a good idea. In practice, the number of players that connect/disconnect/lag/get-booted changes so frequently within any single game, that it just wouldn’t work well.

    #12592

    cbx550f
    Participant

    I agree that the rounds can go on a bit long sometimes, however, I think I like it as it is.

    I understand that it can get a bit trying waiting for a couple guys to finish up, but, when I’m one of those couple guys, and the shot is really tricky, that’s one of the times I enjoy the game the most – trying to finesse that tricky against the wind bounce shot – good fun.

    And as for newbs taking bad shot after bad shot at the end – it’s good practice for them, and will help them get better (esp. if people give them CONSTRUCTIVE criticism)

    My 2 cents. 😉

    cbx

    #12593

    hobbesme
    Participant

    @cbx550f wrote:

    I agree that the rounds can go on a bit long sometimes, however, I think I like it as it is.

    And dead-time gives you time to practice one’s smack talk, or advanced integral calculus, or ask if there are any big-boobed blonde chicks playing with us, etc.

    I mean, what else are most of losers — I mean — guys playing this game for anyway? 😉

    #12594

    hoopy frood
    Participant
    hobbesme wrote:
    hoopy frood wrote:
    How about a new option when setting up the servers that would allow you to automatically set turns/per round based maybe on howmany people start the game.

    That way it would automatically adjust each game?

    I’ve had that idea as well.

    Unfortunately, it fails in real games since the number of players DRAMATICALLY changes from the start, end, & during each game — anywhere from 2-16 players.

    I’m assuming by your implied player-number dynamics that if a low number of players start a game, more rounds will be played. However, if more rounds are played, then it provides a long game where many new players can join & consequently slow down the game.

    If a high number of players start a game, less rounds will be played. If all but two players drop out, then the game ends quickly (however this is not nearly as bad as the previous paragraph scenario).

    Also, it would be folly for the game to dynamically decide at the end of each round the number of more rounds to play based on the current or past number of players in the game. It would just get insane trying to develop a reasonable algorithm to implement this.

    It’s also not feasible to lock the number of rounds based on the starting number of players — and then to block other players from joining. This would be very irritating to players that wish to join.

    In theory, dynamically determining the number of rounds to play based on the number of players is a good idea. In practice, the number of players that connect/disconnect/lag/get-booted changes so frequently within any single game, that it just wouldn’t work well.

    In retrospect I agree with your comment.
    Maybe the issue should be limiting the amount of players per game.
    With the current version of the game the map size is limited.
    In my opinion after 12-14 players it gets crowded.
    Although I like death and destruction most of the time on small boards with many players half the players get taken out with one death head.
    Is this fun?..fair? you decide.

    How about limiting the players per game and having an option that automatically starts a new server when the max players is hit.

    Or just limit players and have more than 1 Non-teams stats server running at all times.

    With a lower Max player per game you could shrink the turns per round and still accomodate all players because the max would be less than the now possible 24.

    #12595

    Ebonite
    Participant

    My votes:

    Scorched 3D (Bots)
    discontinue, there are plenty other servers ppl can practice on with bots

    Scorched 3D (Player Stats, No Bots)
    reduce shots per round to 12
    maintain rounds per game at 10
    reduce seconds per shot to 35 (40 would be OK, too)
    maintain seconds for shopping at 45

    Scorched 3D Teams (Player Stats, No Bots)
    reduce shots per round to 10
    increase rounds per game to 7, 10, whatever (5 is too short 🙂 )
    maintain time on both shots and shopping at 45

    Clarification (or muddlefication) available upon request

    #12596

    cbx550f
    Participant

    Excerpts from Ebo, and my comments:

    Scorched 3D (Bots)
    discontinue, there are plenty other servers ppl can practice on with bots

    Agree.

    Scorched 3D (Player Stats, No Bots)
    reduce shots per round to 12
    maintain rounds per game at 10
    reduce seconds per shot to 35 (40 would be OK, too)
    maintain seconds for shopping at 45

    I’m happy the way it is – but would be equally happy this way too. (“If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice” 😉

    Scorched 3D Teams (Player Stats, No Bots)
    reduce shots per round to 10
    increase rounds per game to 7, 10, whatever (5 is too short )
    maintain time on both shots and shopping at 45

    Strongly agree. Forgive me, but I forget the number of shots/round currently. Seems to me it’s quite rare to hit the limit. I too would like to see the number of rounds/game increased – currently it’s a bit short to allow for economics to be a major factor. I would tend to think, however, that there’s a major risk in increasing the rounds too much. For example:

    First round: Green nails all of the reds first shot, all greens live.
    Second round: Same (or similar)
    (rinse and repeat)

    After a few rounds, green could have an astronomical amount of cash (earned, yes), and the tides could be tipped a bit too far, such that it’s virtually impossible for red to win a round.

    Having said that, I will now (almost) contradict what I just stated: It would be nice if economics could be used a bit more in such a way. ie: One of my habits is to buy little in the first round – then the interest I earned, and (hopefully) the money I earned from kills will help me afford the things I really want. I really enjoy the financial aspects to the strategy in the “no bots/no teams” server – if I do alright in the first few rounds, around round 5 or 6 I find I can afford things like a good shield or, heaven forbid, a deathhead, and still have a bit of cash to spare. To summarize: Yeah, I’d like to see a couple more rounds/game added to team games.

    cbx

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