This topic contains 96 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  BOY 8 years, 12 months ago.

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  • #53389

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    That an entirely valid point HWB.

    However, if the ranking is by skill, the less people play, the more out of practice they’ll get, hence the skill (other than the welcome back luck we all seem to get after a few weeks off).

    You could always look at it in a different way and think that we’d be doing a public service by allowing people to have a life / see their kids and wives more than twice a year / saving money on their otherwise astronimical electric bills. Hell, this in turn could save the planet by lowering CO2 emissions. lol

    Now be honest though, it’s because it makes me have a higher rank than you isn’t it? I hear you now ‘ damn jumped up lil Brit, ain’t having them be better’ 😛

    #53390

    BigBear
    Participant

    @ HWB
    As gangsta as you are mista dubb-ya, I have to disagree with you on this one. The way I see it a skill based rank should motivate getting better by playing the game more rather than less. Regardless of the system used there will always be a way to “optimize” your chances (regarding your thought about avoiding good players). In spite of that I consider a system that enables all the good players to have a shot at the title to be better than a system where only a few with plenty of time on their hands have any type of chance.

    #53391

    naka
    Participant

    What ever skill formula is used, the skill points must not depends of the number of kills.
    which is not true for the current ranking system, nor for the most proposed calculation in this thread.
    It must not suffer from the symptoms ‘play more’=’greater skill’

    What if we have 2-3 different competing ranking system/ (different columns) made in PHP side.
    1 main skill, calculated by the server in real time and 2-3 extra skill columns made by different formulas?

    #53392

    BigBear
    Participant

    @ naka
    I agree, but a pure ratio system has at least one major problem (it would suxx if a stat series winner had only played one game). In other words, a ratio system must either include a total kill component OR we need to establish an acceptable cut off kill limit to reach the higher ranks like PR said earlier. For example 100 kills to be eligable for the top 25 should take most ppl at least 10 hours (if it is done faster you are a pretty good player and deserve a top 25 spot in a skill based rank system anyways). That is more than enough to eliminate the “one good game” effect.

    #53393

    BOY
    Participant

    @bigbear wrote:

    @ BOY
    Using (kills + wins * weightFactor)/rnds would indeed give a better picture of who is a good player than the current ranking system IMO. However, I have a feeling that many would feel robbed if the top ten spots at the end of a series were to be occupied by 10 accounts with 1 “perfect” game on record. That would be quite possible with a pure ratio system. As much as I like the sheer simplicity of the formula and the way it relates to what I would consider to be skill, I just don’t see how the above mentioned pitfall could be avoided.

    sorry for late reply BB, I have been throwing in two cents here and there as time permits on a busy weekend of travel. I have not been able to read as I wished but needed to put in my two cents on the fly before page 10 😀

    I would say as others do that the perfect game scenario can be avoided easily by simply leaving all players unranked who have less than X number of kills. In addition, a certain base skill such as the (1000) currently used would also be of use.

    I would also like to throw this out. Besides a single perfect game, everyone should think of the ways in which a scoring system can be and WILL BE exploited.

    Kill ratio (kill/shot) is exploited by simply waiting around for easy kills. While valid way to play is not in the spirit of a good game and should not be awarded the same skill as a player who plays to win. I could simply play for rnd 1 and 2 and never play against bubbles and increase my ratio… etc….. but that is a sad way to play.

    #53394

    BigBear
    Participant

    @boy wrote:

    I would say as others do that the perfect game scenario can be avoided easily by simply leaving all players unranked who have less than X number of kills. In addition, a certain base skill such as the (1000) currently used would also be of use.

    Good point about the base score as it would be silly if your stats were unavailable until you reach X number of kills.

    @boy wrote:

    I would also like to throw this out. Besides a single perfect game, everyone should think of the ways in which a scoring system can be and WILL BE exploited.

    Offcourse, as we otherwise would risk ending up with a system that would be as poor as the current one.

    After some further reviewing of old stats I have to say that (totalKills + totalGameWins * weightFactor)/totalRoundsPlayed looks better and better to me. Using weightFactor=10 and a and requireing 100 kills to make the cut would be much better than the current system and I would support it 100% (for whatever that is worth :wink:). It eliminates waiting around for easy shots (too kill ratio oriented), the game wins factor emphasizes a vital aspect of the game (too be the best you need to win some games d00des/d00dettes :wink:) and the kills cut takes away the “lucky streak” pitfall. Having too much time to spend playing is completely eliminated as a requirement for success, which cannot be overstated as an being a major improvement AFAIC. Good stuff! 😀

    #53395

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    Not keen on your method Bear, I really wouldnt put Outer ahead of Vihor & XTC in skill.

    I have added the Bears method to this sheadsheet to show how it effects everything (but multiplied by 1000 to make a nicer looking figure).

    I am unable to do Hyde or Radens methods as they are reliant on weapon levels, data that I am not privy to (that I am aware).

    #53396

    Thrax
    Participant

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    Not keen on your method Bear, I really wouldnt put Outer ahead of Vihor & XTC in skill.

    I have added the Bears method to this sheadsheet to show how it effects everything (but multiplied by 1000 to make a nicer looking figure).

    I am unable to do Hyde or Radens methods as they are reliant on weapon levels, data that I am not privy to (that I am aware).

    Weapons sorted by Armslevel. Part of the available Stats.
    http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/stats/allweapons.php?Prefix=1&Series=11&OrderBy=armslevel&Dir=desc

    #53397

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    @thrax wrote:

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    Not keen on your method Bear, I really wouldnt put Outer ahead of Vihor & XTC in skill.

    I have added the Bears method to this sheadsheet to show how it effects everything (but multiplied by 1000 to make a nicer looking figure).

    I am unable to do Hyde or Radens methods as they are reliant on weapon levels, data that I am not privy to (that I am aware).

    Weapons sorted by Armslevel. Part of the available Stats.
    http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/stats/allweapons.php?Prefix=1&Series=11&OrderBy=armslevel&Dir=desc

    I Mean’t that what people used to kill is unavailable, hence I cannot work out what the skill levels would be with their two formulas.

    #53398

    BigBear
    Participant

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    Not keen on your method Bear, I really wouldnt put Outer ahead of Vihor & XTC in skill.

    I have added the Bears method to this sheadsheet to show how it effects everything (but multiplied by 1000 to make a nicer looking figure).

    I am unable to do Hyde or Radens methods as they are reliant on weapon levels, data that I am not privy to (that I am aware).

    Err … you mean BOY’s method, right? 😉
    BTW what are you on about with those numbers? Multiplication is a stronger binding than addition (don’t know the proper terminology in english but you’ll know what I mean hopefully)!!! Correctly applying the formula (totalKills + totalGameWins * weightFactor)/totalRoundsPlayed yields …
    Vihor: 1000*(1172 + 77*10)/983 = 1976
    XTC: 1000*(7102 + 382*10)/6018 = 1825
    Outer: 1000*(351 + 15*10)/285 = 1758
    Maby you should have slept before doing math eh? 😉 😛

    P.S. I got 1362 to your 1360. Let the pwnage begin!!! D.S. 😛 😛 😛

    #53399

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    Well, maybe you should have downloaded the correct version 😛

    Sorry if it was Boys formula, Don;t think I had a spreadsheet at the time, I have revised the spreadsheet now with the () in the right places, but forgot to change the name.

    If it wasn’t for your insulting post, I might agree with you, but as it is, I am going to stick with MY formula 😛

    Come on people, we have only got 4 different methods of working out skill/rank at the moment, surely someone has other ways as there has yet to be one that I fully agree with which SERIOUSLY minimises the penalty for some people.
    Or do people actually want it to stay the same?

    Thinking about it…….
    click here for a poll

    To re-cap, the current suggestions are.
    Raden:
    [ (A x 10) + (C x 10) ] divided by [ (B x 10) + (D x 5) + (E x 10) ]

    where:
    A = Sum of Weapon Arms Level X No. of kills using Specified weapon
    B = Shots per Kill
    C = Number of Kills
    D = Resigns
    E = Suicide Kills

    BOY:
    (Kills + Game Wins*10 or even 20) divided by rounds

    Hyde:
    rank= kill ratio * number of kills * arms level

    Peanut:
    Game wins/ ((rounds played/10)/shots per kill) + (Kills/rounds played) x 1000

    #53400

    Thrax
    Participant

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    @thrax wrote:

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    I am unable to do Hyde or Radens methods as they are reliant on weapon
    levels, data that I am not privy to (that I am aware).

    Weapons sorted by Armslevel. Part of the available Stats.
    http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/stats/allweapons.php?Prefix=1&Series=11&OrderBy=armslevel&Dir=desc

    I Mean’t that what people used to kill is unavailable, hence I cannot work
    out what the skill levels would be with their two formulas.

    Also part of the public stats. Example, your own levels Exist here.
    http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/stats/playerrecentevents.php?Prefix=1&Series=11&PlayerID=39251

    Each time a kill is registered, the weapon used is also noted and
    recorded to the database, and is already used in the current Skills
    calculation.
    Recent lists of who killed who with what is shown here.
    http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/stats/recentevents.php?Prefix=1&Series=11
    Further details can be pulled up on demand, but aren’t shown simply
    because of the thousands of them recorded…

    #53401

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    LOL.
    Please shoot me. I look at those from time to time, but simply didn’t think about them.

    I MIGHT add that info to the spreadsheet a little later and put Hyde and Radens formulas into it.
    TY for being my brain atm Thrax. Any chance I can hire you when im drunk and thinking of doing something stupid but cant think of a reason not to do it? 🙂

    EDIT: Okay, I had the time spare, so I have attempted to show Radens formula in use.
    THIS 🙄 spreadsheet is tabbed to show My method, Radens and BOYs clearly.

    I took upon myself to add another calculation to Radens by adding rounds played into the equation in a seperate column which makes it far more relevant I believe as his method was still heavily about time played rather than actual skill.

    Unfortunately (I hope im right this time 🙂 ) Hydes cannot be shown in this manner as it seems to me that what weapons was used with shots that didnt earn a kill would matter.

    Kill Ratio * Kills * Arms Level = Rank

    Without further explanation from Hyde, it’s tricky to work out this equation. Whether its
    kills for each weapon * its arms level
    then add all the figures together = A
    Therefore would be
    KR*K*A.

    Hyde.. please help!

    #53402

    naka
    Participant

    @thrax wrote:

    Recent lists of who killed who with what is shown here.
    http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/stats/recentevents.php?Prefix=1&Series=11
    Further details can be pulled up on demand, but aren’t shown simply
    because of the thousands of them recorded…

    is it possible with current DB structure to recover a whole game?
    i mean
    1. the ppl played that game?
    2. who login(start) at what level?
    3. final results, with positions of every player?

    the current ranking system and the proposed here others ranking methods are based on the facts who killed who, kills, weapons, ratios etc.

    I think the proper ranking must NOT be based on who killed who, but on results who played with whom,

    it may include:
    1. final positions -1,2,3,4,5,6 ….
    3. skill of the players participating in that game
    2. starting round of the player.
    I know that are complex queries.

    #53403

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    @mr Bear wrote:

    Having too much time to spend playing is completely eliminated as a requirement for success, which cannot be overstated as being a major improvement AFAIC.

    i meant to post about this the other day. guess i forgot/couldnt be bothered…

    it occured to me that the ranking system probably should include time played. certainly skill should be part of the calculation (by my def thats shots per hit), but it shouldnt be the only factor. i think people who dedicate tons of time probably should be afforded some additional respect and be rewarded, even if theyre shit.

    something else to consider, theres likely to be an inverse trend re experience/’skill’. ie, the most experienced players probably arent going to care, cause theyve seen it and bought the t-shirt. (more likely to afk during a game, gift the odd noob, dh an old buddy for fun). perhaps the ranking system should be set up to reward and encourage newer players?

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