This topic contains 138 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Rommel 8 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #56941

    Rommel
    Participant

    Hi Raden :

    Thank you for this post. It was a hard road we traveled, you and I.

    The climbing is not nearly as steep and treacherous here. Not only that, the trees are changing thier colors and the view is spectacular!

    @raden wrote:

    PoM, Rommel, All…,

    I am writing this, not on behalf of the admin group, but on behalf of myself, (from my observation as an admin)

    There is some bad blood between some of us, only because we are human, and I really am sad to see it all come down to this. Due to the way some posts by Rommel has been written in the past, the general feeling of the admins would be defensive and very wary when it comes to handling anything that Rommel posts. From what I see, admins reply to posts either individually, expressing their own thoughts, or, on behalf of the admins (that is, after a discussion among the admins and deciding what to say or do). Sometimes, a thread is locked, and I admit, maybe prematurely, but that I think is to prevent the situation getting out of hand, and also to give the admins a breather and time to recollect, as not all admins are readily available at one time, to discuss matters. You see, it takes time (unfortunately) for most of the active admins to read through the posts (public and private) and because it takes time, some of the admins, including myself, reply to the posts, without much consultation, so as to not delay the handling of the situation. Locking a thread prematurely, could also mean preventing individual comments like these from further flaming the situation. Like I said, it could be a breather, just because it is locked, it does not mean the topic is not discussed any further privately. BUT, locking a thread is not a solution to the problem, the problem or complaint will still be ongoing, thus, new threads will come up, pertaining to the previous complaint or almost equivalent in conten t.
    Admins operate both individually and collectively, they are given the freedom to exercise their powers (with the exception of banning) and express their views on the forums. And there is no heirarchy in the admin group, just that, people like me (most junior admin) tend to look up to those that have been admins much longer than myself, just for advise and guidance on how to handle certain matters. However, being only human, emotion does play a part, when answering individually, so we tend to see some replies (some from me) and actions that can be considered as crossing the line (depending on how an individual sees it). Also, being human, mistakes will be made too 🙁
    I see we are now at a point where some changes could probably make a difference to how things are handled. I also observe that the admins are trying to come up with better procedures and protocol, that will ensure better handling of certain situations. So please bear with them during these ‘times of turmoil’.
    Being very defensive and offensive (both admin and non-admin alike) is counter productive. I hope things will improve in the future.

    To Rommel,

    I am writing this in my capacity as an admin,

    I don’t believe in punishing a player for resigning, and I don’t care what you say about me supporting sanctioning you for resigning, to me it is just a play of words on your behalf. If one reads through all that I have posted regarding that matter, one will see that it was not about resigning that I was talking about. As a matter of fact, I never doubted you resigned, and I did say then that I was not doubting your honesty and integrity. Whatever mistakes that were made during that issue, have been addressed, the outcome, a reminder to all admins to exercise better judgement while administering and to provide ample valid warnings and reasons prior to or after taking action. We accept it as a misunderstanding and hope that the matter does not arise again. No punitive actions were taken against any admin personnel except some verbal advice, as we take it that we are all human and to err is what we unfortunately do at times. I personally apologize if any of my words have caused you heartache and stress and for taking up so much of your precious playing time. On behalf of the admins I would like to say, we hope that this kind of situation does not arise again and do hope you accept our apology for any misunderstanding.

    As for the FFA thread, it arose from the “Admin abuse” thread because of Rommel’s insistence that some of the admins do not know the definition of FFA. Rommel, everybody knows what FFA means, writing and implying it is like rubbing salt into the wound and actually led to adding fuel to the fire. We don’t need anymore definitions to remind us of the rules. We all understand it. BigBear’s post assured the rights of the players who come to the Main server who wish to play FFA. And in your “Not so Fast” thread which you declared reaching a satisfactory conclusion, we did conclude that resigning was an option that can be exercised freely. So, I hope, issues brought up in these 3 related threads be considered as settled. Thank you Rommel, for bringing up these matters, it really has been eye and mind opening for me, and I hope also for the rest of us.

    There is some bad blood between some of us, some old, some new, but I implore we all start afresh, let bygones be bygones, together, we can make a better forum and game environment. Let it be a place where we all can meet up in the cyber world, for some fun….

    My understanding of the purpose of this thread is that we, players and admins, are going to seriously attempt to work together to establish better guidelines for all, not rehash the past.

    By all means, let bygones be bygones.

    But this isn’t about me or my playing time.

    Thank you for you participation,

    Rommel

    #56942

    pastor of muppets
    Participant

    Rom is right it wasn’t about him solely all though he was a big motivator for my original post. Seems that people just started attacking everything he did or said. I believe we have made some progress and believe that Rade, VIke and DB may understand what this post is about.

    Straight forward honest answers with the willing to debate whether you are right or wrong or even if that is how the community feels. We are on the road to healing let’s keep the ball rolling.

    Would like to see some post from admins on rules, potential rules they are discussing to get the communities feeling. Would also like to see Rom be able to speak without getting locked. Debate on this forum is pretty fun I think.

    #56943

    pastor of muppets
    Participant

    I would like to know why apache locked the post and the silent treatment won’t work for me. Seems like most admins do that now these days just wait and it will go away. Not admin personallity IMO. So please apache explian why a forum that was being responded to heavily and not controversial was locked? Just curious about why it was locked and or what your opinions are on that. It is important to us as a community. You are one of the more outspoken admins although I never see you play anymore so your opinion matters.

    #56944

    Crispy Critter
    Participant

    Speaking as a player who has returned after a long absence, I can’t help but wonder, “what’s the big problem here?” It’s almost as if it’s more dangerous to step into this forum than it is to get spawned onto a small, flat island with lots of neighbors. 😯 :mrgreen:

    #56945

    bazzz
    Participant

    Speaking as a player who has returned after a long absence, I can’t help but wonder, “what’s the big problem here?” It’s almost as if it’s more dangerous to step into this forum than it is to get spawned onto a small, flat island with lots of neighbors.

    Seems like it sometimes, the big problem might be that some admins ,instead of trying to resolve things in a reasonable manner take action in a way that is escalating and leaves people wondering about their motivations.I`m not blaming anyone here ,just trying to explain what i believe is happening.

    IMO its been brewing for a long time, what the best action is i dont know really but having an open and honest discussion is a good way to understand whats going on. If we can do this we might be able to build some trust and come to a resolution, whatever that may be it is more important to handle frustrations in a different way than we gotten used to.

    So far everything seems to be going fairly well, good to get an reaction from you CC the more input from people who would otherwise not comment the better.

    #56946

    Raden
    Participant

    @pastor of muppets wrote:

    Debate on this forum is pretty fun I think.

    This is not my idea of fun. A debate done online, between strangers really, who don’t really know each other, except by their online names and assumed online personalities, without being able to gauge the other party’s true demeanor because you don’t see any facial expression, you don’t see any body language….this will usually only lead to unpleasant arguments, and unpleasant words being said, words which will affect the interaction of certain people when they meet again as neighbours on the islands of scorched… 😐

    @pastor of muppets wrote:

    I would like to know why apache locked the post and the silent treatment won’t work for me. Seems like most admins do that now these days just wait and it will go away. Not admin personallity IMO. So please apache explian why a forum that was being responded to heavily and not controversial was locked? Just curious about why it was locked and or what your opinions are on that. It is important to us as a community.

    Why press the matter? The silent treatment is probably because he already gave the reason on the last post of that thread. Apache did say that he locked it because the way that thread was going, it will only get worse, so before it becomes a full blown explosive war of words and accusations, between all of us, why not? 😕 Anyway, that thread was about defining FFA, in my previous post I did mention how that thread came to be. Rommel can always start another thread, or you could open up another similar thread, but I hope after reading my previous post, all parties will post and respond in a non confrontational and non provoking way.

    Telling an admin that he doesn’t have the personality of an admin is almost akin to attacking an individual’s personality. 🙁 I am not going to ask you to define an admin’s personality, because there is no objective answer, only subjective answers, and no individual is ever going to have ALL the traits that an ideal admin would have.

    #56947

    apache64d
    Participant

    Raden just said it all..(damn he beat me..I’ll ban him…)
    The topic was getting worse and worse and more and more emontial. I locked it before blown away. I thinl I already said that few times or at least once…

    BTW, I’m in the let byegones be byegones too…
    (but won’t unlock that topic).

    #56948

    bazzz
    Participant

    If you would have locked the thread apache without having to tell rommel off it would have been fine with me. yes he was being smug but a long way from disrespectfull.

    Instead you seem to be the one who reacted emotionally, whatever you feel rommel did wrong doesnt justify that. It just felt really wrong to me.

    If you want to argue that you are innocent i suppose you could open the thread and we can all have a look to see if it stays respectfull or close it when it doesnt. Alternatively we could do it in private, i would be happy to explain my viewpoints and why i feel the way i feel.

    If someone feels this is an attack please let me know how to express myself in a way that wouldnt make you feel like it.It is not my intention as what i try to argue is that we shouldnt want to reason in a way thats escalating but instead listen to what others are arguing and at least try to understand what they mean.

    We all have opinions and we all have strong feelings when someone disagrees with those , taking sides and getting in a verbal fight is not what we should want. Lets all have the respect to have a reasonable discussion.

    #56949

    Rommel
    Participant

    This post does not concern the admins. It is only to the players that ARE NOT admins.

    ADMINS ARE REQUESTED NOT TO REPLY TO THIS POST.

    Some of the questions put forth by individual players in this thread have been ignored by the admins. In order to have our concerns answered, the players union is developing a questionaire that we will publish in the next few days.

    Unless on an approved sabatical; All Admins that wish to retiain their positions should most likely complete the questionaire within 10 days. Those that fail to do so, would appear to have forfieted the proper concern to maitntain their postion.

    Does this seem reasonable?

    Players only, admin votes will NOT be counted.

    To those players not already members, we welcome your membership. You have already paid your dues, so why not have a voice that counts for a change. All you need to do to join is make a post in this thread.

    This isn’t a Beer Hall Putsch but instead, democracy in action.

    Your voice is important to us and we listen.

    #56950

    bazzz
    Participant

    I dont know if you are trying to make a point or if you are being serious rommel,
    making teams and declaring war wont help any discussion we want to have.

    Please explain what you really mean or retract your post, its not helping IMO.

    #56951

    Rommel
    Participant

    War, not at all. A proper debate though, does require at least two sides and some proper questions.

    @bazzz wrote:

    I dont know if you are trying to make a point or if you are being serious rommel,
    making teams and declaring war wont help any discussion we want to have.

    Please explain what you really mean or retract your post, its not helping IMO.

    Is there something wrong with my question or is the idea of us organizing that seems troublesome?

    #56952

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    @rommel wrote:

    This post does not concern the admins. It is only to the players that ARE NOT admins and not in the players union.

    ADMINS ARE REQUESTED NOT TO REPLY TO THIS POST.

    Some of the questions put forth by individual players in this thread have been ignored by the admins. In order to have our concerns answered, the players union is developing a questionaire that we will publish in the next few days.

    Unless on an approved sabatical; All Admins that wish to retiain their positions should most likely complete the questionaire within 10 days. Those that fail to do so, would appear to have forfieted the proper concern to maitntain their postion.

    Does this seem reasonable?

    Players only, admin votes will NOT be counted.

    Can’t stand unions, just a bunch of bullies using rob tactics!

    This game is Gavins game, he has a team of adins to run it, stop trying to force them out. It’s not OUR game, however dead it would be without players.

    IMO you’re still going about this wrong Rommel, ease up with DO THIS, DO THAT tactic.
    I can’t really think of the best way atm to achieve the goals you appear to desire (and I’ve been wanting an admin shake up for a fair while).
    However, telling people what to do is just going to irritate again.
    Please rethink your stratagy.

    #56953

    Rommel
    Participant

    Good post PR but if you read what I said more slowly, you should see that I only posed a question.@peanutsrevenge wrote:

    @rommel wrote:

    This post does not concern the admins. It is only to the players that ARE NOT admins and not in the players union.

    ADMINS ARE REQUESTED NOT TO REPLY TO THIS POST.

    Some of the questions put forth by individual players in this thread have been ignored by the admins. In order to have our concerns answered, the players union is developing a questionaire that we will publish in the next few days.

    Unless on an approved sabatical; All Admins that wish to retiain their positions should most likely complete the questionaire within 10 days. Those that fail to do so, would appear to have forfieted the proper concern to maitntain their postion.

    Does this seem reasonable?

    Players only, admin votes will NOT be counted.

    Can’t stand unions, just a bunch of bullies using rob tactics!

    This game is Gavins game, he has a team of adins to run it, stop trying to force them out. It’s not OUR game, however dead it would be without players.

    IMO you’re still going about this wrong Rommel, ease up with DO THIS, DO THAT tactic.
    I can’t really think of the best way atm to achieve the goals you appear to desire (and I’ve been wanting an admin shake up for a fair while).
    However, telling people what to do is just going to irritate again.
    Please rethink your stratagy.

    If you truely want to shake them up, vote yes.

    #56954

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    but it was a question about questions it seems.

    I did just have an idea.

    Why can’t it just be a case of having a thread where players (including admins as they’re players too) post some questions they have.
    After, say a week, those questions are formatted for submision to the admin group and ask for the answers to be posted.
    A couple of weeks could be given for them to discuss the answers they’d like to give and post.

    There’s no need to talk about forcing admins to step down, or saying if they don’t respond they should be considered, resigned.

    #56955

    Rommel
    Participant

    There was no mention of force at all. Please reread the post, SLOWLY.@peanutsrevenge wrote:

    but it was a question about questions it seems.

    I did just have an idea.

    Why can’t it just be a case of having a thread where players (including admins as they’re players too) post some questions they have.
    After, say a week, those questions are formatted for submision to the admin group and ask for the answers to be posted.
    A couple of weeks could be given for them to discuss the answers they’d like to give and post.

    There’s no need to talk about forcing admins to step down, or saying if they don’t respond they should be considered, resigned.

    Just the suggestion that anyone truely interested in the game and especially an admin, should be able to check in at least once every 10 days.

    Perhaps another number is in order.

    5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 60, 90 ?

    We can vote on that too.

    Perhaps the players need a secret forum for discussions and voting too.

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