This topic contains 176 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  BOY 4 years ago.

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  • #55239

    BOY
    Participant

    Climate Change.. can I say it a hundred times until people just accept it. JEEZ! I don’t even need to cite any real evidence of actual warming if I do that, just use anecdotal evidence of ice sheets and bird migration and weather patters which I claim are new and scary and fail to actually demonstrate any ACTUAL warming of the earth whatsoever.

    This is just one example of scientific research showing that the present view of reasons for so called Climate Change is foolishness. The Real History of Carbon Dioxide Levels

    There is also lots of good stuff here:

    http://www.junkscience.com/

    Romm, the economic postulates you posed are nifty, however the S&P 500 changes makup and I also figure many other things over the years. There are certain rules to being included. The value is inflated, yes…. but my point is that there is no good way to measure wealth. Wealth is something physical. Money is not always phyiscal, but in all cases, money is power.

    So we have the invent of vast quantities of electronic money, almost unlimited money at the disposal of bankers. This is not wealth, but it is power. They bankers might lose 50% of their portfolio, and the economy cut in half, however, many people will lose EVERYTHING they have as their debt will outpace thier possessions.

    Real wealth is FOOD, GOLD, WEAPONS, WINE, FUEL. etc….. Ask yourself what the value of a bottle of cheap wine was in 1979.. (WooHOO for the year I was born!) and you have yourself a chart for inlfation) YOu have yourself an inflation chart. Now ask how many bottles of wine are consumed each year per capita and you have a real wealth chart. FUEL is also of exreem importance, which is why I invested in ticker DXO a few days ago. I am formulating a hypothesis about the cyclic nature of the destruction of wealth.

    where was i?….

    BigBear, The reason to eat organic isn’t to save the planet, or animals, but to save yourself from obeisity, cancer, hormonal problems, etc…. food additives really are not so good for you. 😛

    #55240

    bazzz
    Participant

    Ahh, heartland and their junkscience , just search for both terms and find out all about how they adapted the strategy to discredit the smoking-cancer link to deny global climate change.First they got their money from tobacco then ExxonMobil , they are nothing more than a tool.

    But hey anyone is free to believe anything they like, and the internet provides info to rationalise all your personal flavours.

    I have to say this as part of the massive conspiracy by my illuminati friends, they are taking over the world soon and turn it into a facist and socialist utopia, unless Glen Beck stops them before they resurrect the ghost of hitler.

    #55241

    BigBear
    Participant

    @bazzz wrote:

    But hey anyone is free to believe anything they like, and the internet provides info to rationalise all your personal flavours.

    Indeed.

    #55242

    Stil8
    Participant

    @bazzz wrote:

    I have to say this as part of the massive conspiracy by my illuminati friends, they are taking over the world soon and turn it into a fascist and socialist utopia, unless Glen Beck stops them before they resurrect the ghost of hitler.

    There is no need really for any illuminati to implement fascism! Capitalism turns into fascism in the long run no matter how it is run… And that is why me and my left-wing comrades are going to stop it… Send right-wingers to prison, make them comfortable (5 star hotel kind of prison), get them out of the way while we force the zombie bourgeoisie to give the resources back to the people!

    Starts singing The Internationale!

    #55243

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    world oil reserves are dwindling. i think i read the usa have about 3 years without imports.

    #55244

    Viking62
    Participant

    Price manipulation is the name of the game. . . .That is how the rich get richer & the poor become poorer. Our food prices are manipulated about the same way & the income the hard working people get for producing in all facets of the industry literally
    get the short end of the stick.

    Not unlike our government propping up the stock market to make me and you think the economy is doing better-A influx of funny money (Bailout funds-Our $$) injected into the market causes a (fake) rise. . . .Doh

    Thereby causing people to put their hard earned $$ back into the same system they lost their arse on previously-Are we that dumbed down….I hope not!!

    Also, “Why” does no one ask what will become of our Social Security money that a heck of a lot of us paid in over the years? As of a few years ago, a person could opt out of the SSA (Social Security) system in the U.S. & you could draw out your monies earned. They put a stop to that sometime during Bush’ reign-Do we all just live for today;with not a thought of what lies ahead tomorrow?

    #55245

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    @rommel wrote:

    The truth of the matter is that the U.S. could have totally eliminated oil imports by the mid 1990’s and we would today, still have enough reserves to power our country for the next 100 years.

    In the mid 70’s, Union 76 and Exxon began working on two seperate commerical shale oil extraction projects…

    thats a bit misleading, rommel – we’re talking crude oil. you know as well as i do that oil from shale is considered commercially nonviable, at least traditionally.

    your own eia lists proven crude oil reserves of 21,317 million barrels. most sources on the internet list us oil demand of about 21 million barrels per day. please double check me – i make that 2.8 years.

    no doubt we’ll have a considerable amount stored by the military. but 100 years? i think youre way off. give me some refs so i can check your numbers

    #55246

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    no doubt, there are options. within the thread of economic collapse, though, i think commercial viability is all important. i suppose any transition from crude or heavy oil to the alternatives will be restricted by those with a vested interest.

    i wont accept that oil from shale has suddenly become more commercially viable, especially if all you can give me is a link to wikipedia. there are many cheaper alternatives emerging (e.g biofuel).

    i do accept that large scale shale oil production has potential to cripple the economic power of the middle east in the short term, with view to forcing down import costs in the medium term, and of course, lessening the challenge of military conquest.

    the us can no longer produce cheap oil. this is an immediate threat to the world economy. its why we invaded iraq, its why there are sanctions on iran and id even suggest its the reason we’re in afghanistan.

    im afraid of americans – david bowie

    #55247

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    removed. so rude! im sorry

    If you plan to crunch the numbers, I hope you keep the following things in mind :

    The elimination of oil exports. That covers approximately 50 percent of the oil imported.

    there are tons of websites dedicated to this stuff, its all been done. and this is my problem with what youre saying – it conflicts with the info on the internet.

    i dont know, im no expert – you could be right, but you must give refs. far as i can see, oil from shale is currently no more realstic than biofuel and so on

    specifically – i need to verify this stuff (i dont think you can, i checked):

    oil from shale has/can/will become a viable alternative to crude oil imports

    usa oil exports amount to 50 percent of imports

    (is that what you said? (!))

    ps: more david bowie!

    #55248

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    Yes, yes. Very well then, sir.

    Forgive me for misquoting you, I just didnt want people thinking the spiel was mine and wanted to summarise.

    So long as we’re recognising this figure of 100 years as hypothetical – a potentially large source of oil that can be manufactured from rock, which may or may not prove to be viable in the future, depending on advances in recovery technology, full analysis of environmental cost and yielding to economic conditions, then I accept your point.

    @rommel wrote:

    The truth of the matter is that the U.S. could have totally eliminated oil imports by the mid 1990’s and we would today, still have enough reserves to power our country for the next 100 years.

    This is wildly inaccurate in contrast to the 3 years of conventional crude oil reserves cited as recoverable by national statistics. But you were only talking about manufacture from shale (I think), so I guess its cool*. Its still misleading. – Partly my fault for making such an ambiguous statement myself. I was talking about conventional crude oil reserves. Ill make an effort to be more verbose in the future : )

    *I think 100 years is a stretch even then. Ive read its more like a couple of decades if it proves to be viable.

    Take care

    @rommel wrote:

    Reminds me of the time we went over to Alamein during the war, I wore an onion on my belt – which was the style at the time. You couldn’t get those white ones, you could only get those big yellow ones… Now where was I? Oh yeah, the important thing was I was wearing an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time…

    #55249

    bazzz
    Participant

    We do a great job in offtopicism.

    #55250

    BOY
    Participant

    ON THE CONTRARY, anything is ontopic here! :mrgreen:

    Here is all you need to know about oil. There will be a serious dent in imports soon. If war doesn’t do it, a UN regulation will. To account for the drop in tankers, and oil from Mexico (maybe also Venezuala) we will get aid from Canada.

    Two companies you need to be aware of

    Enbridge Energy (Canadian) They have a VERY large pipeline nearing completion to bring Alberta oil sands heavy crude down to Illinois pipeline hubs. Project Name: SouthernAccess. They have spent billions upgrading capacity.

    TransCanada. Also tapping Alberta oil sands heavy crude. Thier project is Keystone and KeystoneXL. They are bringing it accross ND border down into Oklahoma hubs.

    There are other projects besides these. The Gulf platforms may be down for now…. but they’ll be back.

    These projects will not make up for the loss in Middle east oil. Prices will spike. YOu shoudl also know that things will get very hard for the small time oil producer due to regulation, thereby making sure that the large corporations have all the profit. YOu can bank on this, I have personal first hand knowledge. I actually Inspect the US operations of both companies mentioned above.

    While you might have complained about the ethanol mandate you will probably be wishing you have a flexfuel vehicle in a few years time. The military will be using all the oil… you ‘get’ can have the ethanol, and then you will wish you had corn again….. say goodbuey to Fritos.

    As stupid and wasteful as electric cars are now, they’ll be equally nice to have in the future….

    Natural gas will become very important as well…. basically it will go like this. As soon as the Gov thinks we can survive the oil shock without anarchy, they’ll drop the hammer.

    #55252

    Stil8
    Participant

    @rommel wrote:

    April 30, 2009 – Recent Update :

    On March 27, 2009 I made the following post :

    @rommel wrote:

    As of today, at the time of this posting, each breathing American owes a debt of $ 36,107.41 to the Federal Government. For a family of 4, the total owed is over $ 140,000 and it’s going up fast. This is in addition to the debt load owed to other financial institutions.

    As of today, at the time of this posting, each breathing American owes a debt of $ 36,590.08 to the Federal Government. For a family of 4, the total owed is over $ 146,360.00.

    Your debt load to the government over the past month and a couple of days increased by $ 482.66. For a family of 4 … Your debt load increased by $ 1,930.64.

    If your take home pay didn’t increase enough to offset what was spent in your name, you are falling behind. If you think you can sell enough of your stuff to pay your way out or to at least keep even, I suspect that you haven’t tried to sell anything lately.

    Next month’s increase can be expected to be just as bothersome as this months so you might want to hit the boss up for a really BIG raise if you have (1) children that aren’t yet marketable.

    Rommel

    And that is exactly why I prefer communism over capitalism…
    First of all, no more government to owe anything to;
    Second, in theory you own everything (collectively with everyone else of course);
    Third, you actually have influence on what the nation does…

    RE: (1) That statement makes me hate capitalism even more!
    I think capitalism has gone far enough, face it, it was a mistake bigger than fascism… Got way more people killed.

    I think it is about time to abandon capitalism… Although communist, I think syndicalism should work well too.

    Long live the proletariat!

    #55253

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    ha ha. its so absurd! isnt it about time you recognised that each of these philosophies is dynamic?

    none of these things are absolute. why would you even go there?

    you know, all these posts re socialism vs capitalism work far better as a satirical representation of xenophobic ignorance. theres a lot of comedy value. genuinely…

    i did laugh : ). ty

    http://www.thepublandlord.com/

    #55255

    Deathbal
    Participant

    @laptops Daddy wrote:

    ha ha. its so absurd! isnt it about time you recognised that each of these philosophies is dynamic?

    none of these things are absolute. why would you even go there?

    Very well put.

    Every system has it’s drawbacks and no system remains static.

    The US is not a totally capitalist society. I think you’d have to go back to the middle ages in Europe for that. Someone correct me if i’m wrong. I would also choose that extreme system over communism of any sort because I believe in individual freedom over the collective. At any cost.

    But this is all a matter of opinion. It is each persons opinion of how they feel day to day life would be best. My opinion is based on each individual and their abilities to create their own life, within a set of laws, without the burden of others on their back. I realize others have the opposite opinion and that is fine with me.

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