This topic contains 63 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  hobbesme 10 years, 11 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #5025

    Thrax
    Participant

    Recently, i’ve seen certian players connect, and brag that
    they’ve downloaded the source, altered it, and compiled the game..

    Seems that it’s easy to enable or alter options to make the
    game easier for them to win online.

    They cannot alter what the server sends them for shot results,
    but to make his aiming easier, or to trace all shot types etc.

    I know it’s opensource, and the game is free for anyone to view
    the source, but should players be trying to rewrite options to “cheat”?

    #35971

    cbx550f
    Participant

    This has been discussed before – there is really no practical way to stop that.

    Just a price we have to pay, I guess.

    cbx

    #35972

    Irishbandit
    Participant

    This is not just a problem in the open source community M$ is having problems with people editing code for the games like halo and halo2 then cheating. People will always try to cheat.

    #35973

    Thrax
    Participant

    @irishbandit wrote:

    This is not just a problem in the open source
    community M$ is having problems with people editing code for
    the games like halo and halo2 then cheating. People will always
    try to cheat.

    That part i know, and have experienced plenty in other places..

    I was just wondering if there was a reasonable way to
    deterr them, or restrict them, without having to resort to a full Ban.

    for eg..
    I was observing comments, and mentioned that i should request a
    server feature, to Auto-kick players the moment they activate Grid-on…

    so he says..:
    oh! i’ll be right back then.. have to go change
    my exe to stop the server from detecting that!

    … I am a novice programmer, and know it’s simple to do what he does.
    but is there some way of setting the server to detect connecters
    more critically? to know if it’s not the correct ident?

    #35974

    cbx550f
    Participant

    So I’d say: Ban him. 😉

    If someone is cheating, and admit it, is there ever a better reason for a ban?
    I’m not a big fan of banning either, but I honestly cannot think of any other way to handle this sort of thing.

    #35975

    Thrax
    Participant

    @cbx550f wrote:

    So I’d say: Ban him. 😉

    If someone is cheating, and admit it, is there ever a better reason
    for a ban?
    I’m not a big fan of banning either, but I honestly cannot think of
    any other way to handle this sort of thing.

    so you all know, it’s Shotso / Brown / wasted ,that is altering the source
    and bragging about it.

    If he continues to play with an altered copy after today,
    I may have to restrict his access.

    Edit:
    sadly, after his exploit of the console to spam messages, i had
    to Server Mute him.. which made him instead resort to changing
    his name repeatedly to override the mute.
    I’ve had to temporarily Ban him from my servers untill he
    changes his ways.
    Sorry Shotso, you may be young, but you need to respect common sence.

    Edit2: regrettably, due to repeat attempts to bypass the ban,
    i’ve had to permanantly lock all access from Shotso…
    I diddn’t want to have to, but maybe in the future,
    when he learns, he can return.

    #35976

    Shotzo
    Participant

    … So you’re saying that I can’t fix bugs just because it’s open source..?

    I’m not using it to cheat; my calculator does that…

    The copy I’m using merely has a button to clear tracers; as well as a button to show where people’s shots hit.. cause I get distracted easily… cause often there’s a more prettier explosion somewhere else.

    Unless this is called “Cheating” I don’t see why I can’t compile…

    If you don’t want me doing this.. make it closed source, charge 20$ to use it… and yea.

    It just saddens me that even though the source code was released to be “Helpful” — I can’t be helped.

    And if you sincerely want it to be much harder… tell the clients what to draw!

    I’m still more novice than you think at programming. I can’t even figure out how to declare a global variable without having 500+ linker errors come up in my face;

    And there IS a downside to having the tracer shots being shown for every shot:: Soon as oh say, “Shocking Rain” is fired.. Oh gasp, I can’t see squat…

    And by the way: The modifications I do do NOT introduce bugs…

    Here’s a bug I found just by looking at the source code: There’s a pi constant; yet noone uses it in the code. Go figure.
    Pi is 3.1415926535897932384626433832… not 3.14.

    Or you can just make the program calculate a checksum of itself, and do a simple comparison. There you go, problem solved.

    There’s just too many files to figure out which one draws the grid though. So it is unlikely that I would be able to “alter” what the server does.

    #35977

    Crispy Critter
    Participant

    There’s a flip side to source editing – sometimes, it is necessary.

    When 40.0 came out, it needed extensive editing in order to get it to compile under GCC 4. Of course, this was not related to gameplay – but it was modification nonetheless.

    Fortunately, 40.1 has compiled cleanly on my system, sparing me a lot of effort that I had to put in last time around…

    #35978

    Shotzo
    Participant

    True that;

    And sometimes there just isn’t any options that you want.. Like oh, I don’t know… maybe having the server’s tax be something other than 0-100%? How’s 1000%?!

    Or change the max cash from 999999.. ?? Hmm?

    Sometimes it’s necessary to change the source code to fit one’s needs. Just because someone’s the odd one out doesn’t mean you should ban them, and anyone else new that comes along (Eh, Thrax? I gotcha’ to ban everyone new to your server!! Arent’cha proud?)

    #35979

    Picci
    Participant

    @shotzo wrote:

    (Eh, Thrax? I gotcha’ to ban everyone new to your server!! Arent’cha proud?)

    that’s just “pure eviL”

    Thrax, i’m sorry you had to do that… there must be another way around..
    check if he’s always off the same IP for example, if he’s not and he’s using dialup or something, just flood him and his conncetion should burst…

    Shotzo, no one is proud of what u did.

    quit it,

    bye ,
    Picci

    #35980

    Brain Damage
    Participant

    sorry i think i’m a bit lost here.

    is this a cheating discussion or a open-source debate?

    i would like to distinguish those 2 arguments:

    open-source: IMO this game is alive & constantly played because of 3 reasons:

    -it’s fun to play
    -it’s well made
    -it’s opensource

    even if you don’t belive in the open source philosophy (wich i do); you can stil make a more “commercial” thinking: if this game will become closed-source it will lose lots of support and players; the gnu licence lets you download & edit the sources freely. The fact that people are being able to cheat is only a little price to pay for the large benefits that it gives to the project; as cbx said there is no point of putting protections since they will be easy spotted in the source itself.

    cheating: i will call cheating an unfair advantage; along that i will consider cheating the use of any sort of calculator, source-edit or program that will improve the ability to aim wich is not shipped with the official release of the game.
    Even if you’re able to freely edit the sources, in the moment that you play an online game in a server you implicitly accept the server rules.
    all the official servers have the explicit rule of “no cheating allowed”; if you will admit that you cheated on the official servers, i will ban you because you went against the server rules (and against common sence too i’d say)

    but i would like to make a question to all the cheaters:
    what kind of fun you get by playing with cheats? i cannot see the fun of playing a “math” game where no skill is requied.

    #35981

    Thrax
    Participant

    @Brain Damage wrote:

    sorry i think i’m a bit lost here.

    is this a cheating discussion or a open-source debate?

    -snip-
    cheating: i will call cheating an unfair advantage; along that i will consider
    cheating the use of any sort of calculator, source-edit or program that will
    improve the ability to aim wich is not shipped with the official release of
    the game.
    Even if you’re able to freely edit the sources, in the moment that you play
    an online game in a server you implicitly accept the server rules.
    all the official servers have the explicit rule of “no cheating allowed”; if
    you will admit that you cheated on the official servers, i will ban you
    because you went against the server rules (and against common sence
    too i’d say)

    but i would like to make a question to all the cheaters:
    what kind of fun you get by playing with cheats? i cannot see the fun of
    playing a “math” game where no skill is requied.

    Opensource is great, allowing others to help make the original better.
    For the game of Scorched3d, Gavin compiled into the EXE in a way that
    he feels is good for all. If someone else looking at the source see’s
    an error, or something to improve, Tell Gavin. Then he can implement
    that for everyone.
    Players that are altering the source to do thing’s that weren’t previously
    allowed; to stretch the targeting wedge 200 points for laser aiming, or
    to make every shot trace, or to enhance the grid’s better for calculating..

    Those are the ones i believe shouldn’t be allowed to play online with others.

    but overall, it was none of this that eventually forced the
    player Shotso / Brown from being blocked from my servers.

    If you read the edits in my earlier post, i was willing to allow him
    a chance to recover the original code and play propperly.

    It was his Spamming Via Console, that earned him a Mute.
    Then Rapidly changing of name, using his Name to still send
    messages that forced me to temporarily Ban.

    But he continues to Bypass the Ban, by deleting his ids.xml and
    proxying himself new ip#’s. I was forced to close my servers to
    all new players..

    unless another server admin feels my actions were unwarrented…

    #35982

    apache64d
    Participant

    Brown, the thing is that u took advantage of the open source of the game to use it for cheating, That’s the thing that u ARN’T allowed to do. Fixing bugs u could (but the best is to report it to gavin or and the forum) but u used that is is open source game and u sed your skills to cheat in the game. So don’t be too “innocent” and claim u “just” edited the source for fixing bugs and stuff. Hell, I aint even talk more about the flooding and bypassing the ban ‘couse it speaks for itself.

    #35983

    Shotzo
    Participant

    The flooding is easily done by anyone, and it wasn’t done through the console.

    I’ll repeat for the LAST time before I get.. .. unhappy:

    STEP 1: Before a round ends, press ENTER, and a message, but do not hit enter.
    STEP 2: During the screen that contains a progress bar, hit ENTER 3,000 times. You may also press letter keys, and backspace, and whatnot.

    There, you did it. You killed a server.

    And Thrax: I have _NO_ clue how to change ANY of the built-in models. That point is moot.

    Nor have I found any way to draw stuff to the screen, so “enhancing” the grid as you say, is also impossible for me.

    And as for using a calculator — It takes time to do physics calculations. And even then, I don’t know how to account for wind, nor do I know how to account for uneven terrain.

    And I’m not proxying. I’m merely reconnecting. It’s a DYNAMIC IP address.

    I could probably tell you all of all the other (fairly serious) bugs I’ve found… but I figure that’s enough.

    And come on Thrax, how hard is it to make the shot camera originate exactly from the target wedge? It makes lasers trivial. With the current shot cam, there is parallax error, and as such it makes it innacurate… but seriously Thrax, just be glad I haven’t caused any serious errors on your server.. (not including runtime errors, or the ODE collision of death..).

    Personally, I’m happy hosting my own server. I can happilly do research into the server folder and see what I can do about an automatic reconnect…

    And Thrax, I was merely trying to communicate with you by changing my name. If you were NICE about it.. instead of saying “temporary”, try “5 minute?”.. Banning me just made things a lot worse…

    Oh, and interesting thing to note: banning an entire IP block isn’t a smart idea as you would probably ban more than 5% (conservative estimate) of the players of Scorched..

    It doesn’t take much to add proxy-server support into scorched3d however.



    And I would call “taking a Physics course” an unfair advantage, or hell, even “playing the damned game”, unfair.

    After all, when you refine your shot, what ARE you doing, you’re calculating! Just because someone decides that it’s faster to do debug.print curAngle – 40, instead of actually taking the five seconds it takes to do it in their head, would constitute an “unfair advantage,” by your argument. Not only that — practice, would constitute an equally unfair advantage. And as such, you should ban everyone that has had more than 50 kills.

    #35984

    Brain Damage
    Participant

    IMO you miss the whole point of the game; the game should be how much you can personally aim better (i mean without using any direct external help)
    now your english skills might be better than mine and twist & turn what i say, or even take it so literally that will make no sence; but:
    i mean personally aim better your mental skills to calculate the shots; you are supplying your lack of skills using an external calculator, wich is to comparable as using a text book to answer a test about your knowdlege skills.

    about the bugs of this game:

    every software has bugs/lacks/errors; instead of using them to flood a chat, turn down a server or whatever use that is considered as a violation of a civil behaviour & common sence (and might be even punished penally in some states); you might instead report those bugs in the appropriate section and contribute to the development of this game.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 65 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.