This topic contains 16 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  ArmorWraith 5 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #7617

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    Hey all.

    I’m looking to re-tweak the game a bit (hopefully in time for the new stat series and game version), this thread is for Skill / Ranking tweaks.
    There will also be seperate threads for:
    * Weapon Base Price tweaks
    * Monetary rewards ingame

    * Additional threads started by others for tweak discussions they’d like to start seperately.

    Please try to keep these threads ‘on-topic’, additional discussion can continue in other threads, with worthwhile points ported across to these threads.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    As some of you are aware, the ranking system has changed dramatically over the past couple of years, from ranking based purely on number of kills, to being skill based and then the sklill system being tweaked (as of this posting, I do not have the equation being used at the moment, I am awaiting a response on this, the most current located is Gavins post here Clicky.

    Well, the skill system needs more refinement in my opinion as the top 10 ranked players are getting too heavily punished for playing against the low ranked players.

    It’s extremely hard for me for example to actually gain skill points in a game with anyone ranked outside the top 10 now because if I’m killed by them, I lose a whole ton of points, so I’d need to win like 9-1 to gain even a couple of points in a 1v1 game.

    The problems with this are:
    * The experienced players who usually end up at the top of the rankings will be unwilling to play new players, to teach them the ropes, gift money and continue the tradition Scorched has of being helpful and friendly to newbs (oh how we miss Mandy in this area).
    If the newb learns quickly and the experienced player skips moves or intentionally misses to allow the newb time to practice their aim, they’ll be taking points off the player left and right.

    * It allows certain types of players to ‘smurf’ in new accounts (smurfing means to be an experienced player that starts a new account to appear to be a newb), to then take points off the higher ranked players and then use their own high ranked account to level up seperately (this has happened).

    * The rankings don’t really show who the more skilled player is, rather who played the right people at the right time.

    I realise that many of us don’t play ‘for stats’ however we do generally like to look in and see how we’re fairing against our peers. Seeing that player that you’re very closely mached to in skill being 10 places above you though is comfusing and demorilizing.

    I’m not sure what the BEST way to rank players is at the moment, rather, I have some ideas to run by you guys in the hope you’ll come up with some ideas too and together we can improve the system.

    Idea #1

    I propose lowering the max skill lost to -10, because it doesn’t matter the skill level of the player that killed you if you killed 3 people and 1 player killed you, you’re clearly the better player, so why lose points for it?
    Also, it completely falls down when really good players return to the game or only play very occasionally. I’ve lost over 100 points before because I was playing a far superior player who had a newb rank (Deathbal (you’re only supposed to charge me a Toll when you’re working (private joke)).

    Idea #2

    It would also be cool (if possible) if there were bonus points for a kill in high wind (force 4-5) with an angle of 75+.
    This is the closest I think it’ll be possible to get currently to show a ‘hard shot’ without major code revisions.
    It will also give the ‘pro’ players the chance to gain points against new players, who in turn will have more time to home in their shots.

    Idea #3

    Bonus points for gifting money to other players was suggested to me by a mate who got me into the game. ‘Richie’.
    Currently there are several players that do not gift money to players joining mid game or newbs that keep spending their money on Nukes / MIRVs / Funks etc… and fluking kills. I ‘assume’ in their mind it’s “why give them money to help kill me, I might lose the game”, if there’s some benefit to it, they might be more generous.
    This idea does have a flaw though. Some players could just keep gifting money to a smurf account they join with to increase their skill.

    As the current system is ABOUT right, other than losing too many points, I’m not proposing too many changes. This MAY change when I get the actual system that’s being used (providing I understand it).

    Please leave your feedback in the current system, ways to improve it and feedback on my thoughts / ideas.
    This work is all to benefit us, the players of this fine game, so please speak up so that we can improve things further.

    #64661

    Andrey_S
    Participant

    Didn’t know that everything is so serious with the game.

    I can comment 2 things (basing on my own experience).

    1. I don’t think newbs (like me e.g.) are starving for points, being at top 10 or smth. Of course they like to see their rank growing (as you mentioned), but they are not so deep in the game (like you). As for me, playing with high ranked player is the closest way not to POINTS but to experience and skill (like in billiard or tennis, you know, when playing with stronger player or on money, makes you better), I mean my own skill, not skill points or smth else.
    I’m not a Pro, so I can’t say definetly, but assumption about Pro’s (old players) who are so bothered with their rank, points, skill level, amused me a bit.

    2. About gifting. I think ranking shouldn’t depend on gifting. I don’t know how to comment it properly… Well. It’s like in real life. Being generous is good, but being not very generous shouldn’t be accused. You can’t say in real life: “Look, I’m generous, then I deserve smth more then others…”

    So, I support ideas #1 and #2 (but angles should start from 60, I think, for me it’s very hard to shoot with 60 degree angle at wind 4-5)

    #64662

    Andrey_S
    Participant

    Oh, I thought today, may be one should gain more points for killing through wall (“wrap around” and “bouncy” walls I mean)?

    #64663

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    @andrey_s wrote:

    Oh, I thought today, may be one should gain more points for killing through wall (“wrap around” and “bouncy” walls I mean)?

    /Signed

    #64664

    ArmorWraith
    Participant

    This seriously needs some attention. I drew a blank when I went to put this in the Bug Tracker.

    How exactly would one calculate skill in scorched 3D? I believe we need to consider the following parameters:

    1) Weapon Choice
    2) Amount of Wind
    3) Number of Shots Taken
    4) Damage Caused to player tanks
    5) K/D Ratio (gathered from individual matches)

    No skill calculation can ever be perfect, but I think we have enough brain power here to come pretty damn close. I would like to see it based on a 1:1 system.

    For example:

    Player chose baby missile: 1/1
    Wind factor 5: 1/1
    Number of shots taken : 3shots 1/1 (For this we need to find the average amount of shots it would take a pro player. We can gather this data from past stats.)

    Damaged Cause to other tanks: 1/1 (so it can determine effort as well)

    The K/D ratio skill award will be a bit special. It would be added to your stats AFTER the game is over,so you get points for a game by game basis: Also encourages you to stay the whole game to collect full skill.

    k/d: 1

    ^So above the score for this perfect player would be a grand total of:

    4skill points + 1additional K/D skill point X 100= 400 Skill points for a perfect round + 100 skill points for favorable k/d for that game.

    I believe the only way to subtract skill should be self kills, and a negative K/D.

    So lets examine a noob player round.

    Player chose Funky Bomb: 0.1/1
    Wind factor 1: 0.2/1 (since 5 levels of wind = windfactor/5 = amount of points)
    Number of shots taken : 6/3 shots 0.5/1 (This is considering the avg # of shots for a pro player is 3)

    Damaged Cause to other tanks: 1/1 (so it can determine effort as well, did you cause damage to a tank yes/no. Basically a free 1 skill point if you tried)

    k/d: 0.5 (oh lets say the noob was killed half of the time 4 kills out of 8 deaths.

    ^So above the score for this noob player would be a grand total of:

    1.8 + 0.5KD bonus X100= 180 + 50 = 230 skill points.

    Now this is on a round by round basis, so the maximum skill one could earn per round would be:

    400 Points/round.

    and if the player finishes the game with an exact 1:! K/d:

    +100 skill after end of game.

    So in a ten round “Perfect Game” with factor 5 wind every round you have the potential to earn:
    4000 skill points + 100 K/D bonus.

    The k/d is special, lets say you finish a perfect 10 round game, force 5 wind every round with a k/d of 2:1 then your end of game skill bonus would be:

    4000 skill points + 200 K/D bonus.

    See how that would work? It is a skill system based off of community opinion. If the community agrees that the armslevel of the funky bomb should be 1, then it will coincide with the 1:1 system. so a higher weapon gives less points than a lower weapon:

    For example:
    Baby Missile: Armslevel 10 = 1 full point for skill or 1/1
    Napalm: Armslevel 5 = 0.5 skill points or 0.5/1
    Death Head: Armslevel 1= 0.1 skill points or 0.1/1

    Since armslevels are out of ten, then its easy to convert to a decimal below or equal to 1.

    Now for a negative K/D or a Suicide.

    Suicide:
    Net amount of points in current round- (Net amount of points in current round X 0.25)= 1/4 of skill lost (suicides should cost you in my opinion.) You would lose 1/4 of the points you gained during that round ONLY. Not the total amount of points accumulated thus far.

    below 0 K/d:
    lets say you had a k/d of -2 or 8deaths/4 kills:
    same rules apply at end of game, would subtract 200 skill points for a bad game.

    Is this making sense to everyone? I will also attempt to find a system for weapon prices, scoring, and moentary reward aswell if this goes over favorably.

    Armor

    #64665

    ArmorWraith
    Participant

    Ok sorry explained the K/D wrong. Realized it after I got in the shower:

    lets say you have a K/D of 14/8. You killed players 14 times, they killed you 8.

    youve met the K/D of 8/8 right? Any extra points are skill. So it would look like this.

    8/8 K/D- You broke even= 100 Pts

    14/8= You excelled, 100 Pts + 600 additional kill points.

    So 14/8 would be read as, 1:1 with a remainder of 6. so you get 1/1 which is 100 points + your remainder X100 or 600 extra points. It rewards those who have more skill in killing than just breaking even.

    Make more sense? Explained it wrong.

    This will allow us to add achievements when a certain skill, kill, or shot level is reached. 🙂

    There are many ways to calculate skill, but I think this one would be rewarding. some games give you a set point limit and subtract from there, which I believe makes the player feel like crap and doesnt account for habit, excellence, or luck. This will garuntee positive results (unless you really suck) yet keep it competitive. There would be no skill cap, at the end of the season, the player with the most points wins. Hopefull their skill would be in the thousands-millions at peak players.

    There would be no penalty for a top player being killed by a lower ranked player, it just doesnt make sense. Too many pros play at low ranks, and tbh the idea was just goofy to start with.

    Armor

    #64666

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    How to tell the number of shots to get the kill?

    Example 1:

    I start shooting @ Chopper (cos I always start shooting chopper first).
    Andrey kills Chopper (cos he’s a thieving little bastage).
    I target target laptop (cos I know he’s not bothered turning his chutes on).
    Before my digger finds him, Andrey caps him in the head with a bbm.
    I target Andrey and hit him square in the face with a bbm.

    It didn’t take me 3 shots to kill Andrey, it took 1.

    Example 2:
    As above but Andrey has a force shield on and I land Hot Napalm just up hill from him and kill him.
    That was some ‘on par’ kill that took three shots and still needed a heavy weapon, it was a brilliant shot with the appropriate weapon to kill a superior force.

    I also think that opponent ranking should have a factor and it would also be cool if we give ‘seeding’ or something to players that have finished 3 times in top 25 or something.
    So that no matter what ranking a player has, they don’t have too much effect on other players.
    Let’s say… Being killed by a seeded player means you don’t lose any skill points. That way the returning player can still earn plenty of points when joining mid season, but the top ranked players don’t start losing points hand over fist to the pro player that the stats say is a newb.

    I’m glad someone else is joining my crusade on the skill system too, which I think should be back dated to the start of the last series, then Hyde would never have caught and over taken me.
    That rat bastage!

    #64667

    ArmorWraith
    Participant

    Could be cool to add a callout system as well:

    Designate Target: Player 1

    Armorwraith is going to kill player one!

    Extra skill for making a successful callout

    Armor

    #64668

    ArmorWraith
    Participant

    See the way I wanted to implement shot counts is. You take the total amount of players, partition off the average number of shots: like in golf you need to meet certain strokes.

    Shields… hmm.. I forgot about those, ill have to add them to my former idea of 1:1.

    Edit** easily remedied. Each shield can only deflect a certain number of reasonable shots. EX a small shield reflects 2 dead on shots only. Could add that to the average and still get the correct shot percentage. Still a 1/1. So it will give you a shot bonus if you crack the shield before par with the correct weapon. EX force shields and hot napalm. force shields deflect shots fairly well, crack it before its shot count it out, you get a shot bonus for that kill.

    Armor

    #64669

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    @armorwraith wrote:

    Could be cool to add a callout system as well:

    Designate Target: Player 1

    Armorwraith is going to kill player one!

    Extra skill for making a successful callout

    Armor

    Not a bad idea (most people, I’m sure, already hit ‘a’ on or near their target already, should be easy enough to make … ‘q’ designate target).

    When designating target, would it be good that you lose points if you fail, but gain double points for a successful kill?

    Another idea with that…
    The earlier you designate a target, the more skill you could earn (or less to lose) for a successful kill (or failure).

    That way others can try to intercept your kill and lose you points, the more warning they get, the easier it could be to intercept.

    Getting a little complicated now tho, especially for something few ‘really’ care about, just occasional bit of bragging rights.

    #64670

    ArmorWraith
    Participant

    Yeah, fundamentals first. We can add frosting later.

    We need more input.

    Armor

    #64671

    Chopper
    Participant

    I think my heads gonna explode…. #-o

    how was it calculated way back in the version 38’s.
    seemed to work just fine ask Gavin.

    #64672

    ArmorWraith
    Participant

    @chopper wrote:

    how was it calculated way back in the version 38’s.
    seemed to work just fine ask Gavin.

    Or we could do that I suppose?

    Armor

    #64673

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    I imagine it would be the same as it was in 41, purely kill based. Who got the most kills didn’t really highlight who was better than who.

    #64674

    ArmorWraith
    Participant

    Distance, Resistance, Angle, and Shot is the ticket I think.

    Distance- How far is the shot?
    Resistance- Are they wearing a shield? Wind?
    Angle- How high do you have to shoot?
    Shot- How long did it take you, and with what weapon?

    Armor

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