This topic contains 15 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Raden 8 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #7019

    pastor of muppets
    Participant

    The SK penalty is pretty much ridiculous. If you take Rades SK’s vs. Mine and do the math I’m like within 90 some points of him. The reason I say this is maybe, maybe 2 to 3 of those are actual self kills. Most are the result of ppl funky dying and recently they are the result of people running up or teleporting right next to me expecting a truce. They sit there and expect you won’t shoot at them. That is a real crappy war strategy, I’ll get real close and my enemy will just leave me alone cuz of the skill points. Long story short…it ain’t happening here.

    Can we change this next version? A SK is not usually the fault of the shooter but the luck of the dier which has absolutely nothing to do with skill at all except for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The SK penalty has encouraged trucing, discouraged game play and as of recently encouraged players to sit next to you and gloat knowing they will die and lose 2 points but you will lose 25 unless you are more worried about rank than the game at hand.

    I would love to hear the thoughts of others here.

    #57656

    naka
    Participant

    -25 skill points is too much imo. This was discussed not long ago. I think the penalty points should not be more than -10. It is optional and can be changed any time on the main servers.

    But there is some very good idea that can be a possible feature request.
    I have to quote viking here:
    @viking62 wrote:

    I am thinking the (Pinpoint weapons) missle (Baby & regular),Nuke,Baby Nuke self kills should be -25. Any other self kills should be only about -10. The “Pinpoint Weapons” self kills are a “I messed up badly” move and all others are random like gambling and should’nt be punished so heavily with point loss.

    The idea is: the same way as ‘weapons Armslevel’ is applied to the skill calculation, the same way ‘Armslevel’ can be used for self kills but in opposite meaning.

    example for some Armslevel

    Baby Missile — Armslevel:10 —- maximum penalty points -25 for example
    Missile — Armslevel: 9
    Baby Roller — Armslevel: 8


    Digger — midrange Armslevel: 7 —- midrange penalty -10 points


    Funky Bomb — Armslevel:3 —- minimum penalty -6
    Heavy Sandhog — Armslevel:3—- minimum penalty -6
    Death’s Head — Armslevel:2 —- minimum penalty point -5 for example

    Armslevels should be revised too imo.

    #57657

    Chopper
    Participant

    Hell, I had a digger I tossed about 600 power and the sucker sked me…and didn’t do much to the dude I laid it on…..-25 is too damn much. #-o

    Also as Vike says….most are result of some weiner dyin’ too close….it does need revising…. =D>

    #57658

    Rommel
    Participant

    As one of those often killed by killing someone else,
    my opinion is that the SK penalty is a fair penalty.

    Excessive greed should be penalized.

    Take it like a man and smile.

    #57659

    BOY
    Participant

    Don’t get me started, oh… perhaps I shall….

    I have an entire new system to rate players, ready to go, and based on player performance.

    The base score is easy. SCORE PER ROUND. It has nothing to do with other players rankings, or arms levels. Results plain and simple.

    If you take a look at the stats, you will see that there are players who have a low skill rating (compared to the leaders). These are players like HWB, Che Malbec, Naked Stoner, myself, and some others. I would say all of them are top rate, but their skill rate will not show this because they don’t have time to spend inching the skill upward (since it favors play time over quality). I think all know that the players I mentioned are threat to win any game.

    Now, some players have a very high skill and score per round, both. These are players like Mops, or Vitos, and also Raden too, to name just a few.

    Take SCORE PER ROUND, this accounts for Kill, Assist, and Win on a per round basis. The players at the top of this list are who I regard as the biggest threat, not the higher skill rankings. BTW pastor, if it means anything to to you. I say, until the skill is calc’d right. IGNORE IT!

    oh, where was I?

    To further improve the accuracy of the rating, add a win factor. GAME WINS PER ROUND. This factor will truly divide the top players from the rest.

    FOR MY FULL VERSION OF A TOTAL PLAYER PERFORMANCE RATING, SEE BELOW.

    1. [SCORE PER ROUND] minus [RESIGNS PER ROUND]*[2]
    * rewards Kills, Assists and Round Wins
    * each resign is equal to removing one assist from the score per round

    2. multiply 1. by [GAME WINS/(SHOTS FIRED + 200)] to get performance factor (will be small number less than 4 or so).
    * rewards both accuracy and game wins
    * the 200 prevents exploit by one easy game win (may not be necessary if used with average of skill, as skill can not be high if player is new.
    * players without at least one game win will end up zero performace rating.

    3. Average the result from 2. with the [SQUARE ROOT of (SKILL/1000)].
    * allow the old skill calc to be kept.

    The top 25 results using stats from a week ago would be as follows:

    Mops 1.825
    Radimir 1.732
    defective bot 1.665
    Vitos 1.656
    drone 1.608
    Kermit 1.567
    Master of horror 1.553
    Naka 1.539
    NAKED STONER 1.462
    tnick337 1.394
    Deathbal 1.385
    Alex 1.382
    V 1.352
    Tanksnipe 1.344
    sabi 1.342
    Rodijak 1.340
    Boy 1.322
    Pastor of Muppets 1.298
    Extra Crispy 1.297
    PERFECT 1.290
    Extreme 1.244
    HWB 1.212
    iTlon 1.199
    Che Malbec 1.174
    Seven 1.170

    #57660

    tumbleweed
    Participant

    The high sk penalty is discouraging more “creative” play, such as a “suicide” type attack when another player moves or teleports right next to you, or spawns close. The sk has been reduced to -10 on the mod servers and it does seem to help encourage “creative” play.

    #57661

    pastor of muppets
    Participant

    Boy I say go for it. Looks to me like it represents real stats more than anything else we’ve seen. But know this…I am a stas whore…I’m sorry but I can be excited about a game excited about a round but what I really crave is the overal stats. Sue me the NFL does it the NHL does it NASCAR does it and so do I =).

    #57662

    Hyde911
    Participant

    General idea is very good Boy. One thing. Weapon level should have more impact on score, since your system promotes winning game with less shots. Otherwise we’ll get more players like Naked Stoner. If you look at his stats you will see that he got half of his kills with hogs. I know it isn’t illegal, but I’m against any rank system which promotes hoggers.

    #57663

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    hi,

    theres a little bit more to game stats than rewarding the top players. its as much about identifying skilled players to other people. for example, its probably much less frustrating for a new player to get killed in one shot, if they can see the player has a very high rank.

    maybe rank should show actual skill level more than weapons choice or total game wins?

    id like to see a system where skill is calculated based on how close you get to the target you were going for. (with or without a kill). it may not be possible, i dont know… but perhaps if we had the closest player you get to with the first shot marked as ‘target’.

    ^ im pretty sure that kind of thing isnt possible without changes to the game code. just throwing it out there for consideration.

    #57664

    BOY
    Participant

    The best way to do what you want there is to rate players by damage/money earned with interest filtered out. If I take out 90% of the shield, I’d get some points…

    #57665

    Rommel
    Participant

    It is good to see that the statistical calculations are being looked over but the topic was the Self Kill penalty specifically, not the stats in general.

    The Self Kill (SK) is fine as it stands. No one is forced to take a shot that they think could result in a self kill. Therefore, the greedy or those that don’t think about their shots are much more likely to be penalized. Thinking should be encouraged.

    Acid used fuel to drive inside my force shield yesterday. Instead of killing him, or him killing me, we both drove off to better locations. We could have easily killed each other but both, being high ranked players, hoped that the other would take the shot and kill themself. I was prepared to die to and so was he.

    Think about the map, think about your opponents and think about spending some of your cash on something other than a Death’s Head. Fuel is a good thing to have on hand but it is seldom used. Same with ports.

    Instead of promoting the idea of shopping more wisely, some of you seem to favor increasing the shot power and eliminating the SK penalty so that the chart shooters can hit anyone from anywhere without any downside.

    Before making any more changes, I suggest that ALL of the admins educate themselves and participate in the process this time. A test bed server should be established that the admins can run 24/7 with bots. After sufficient data is collected and the analysis performed, changes, if deemed required, should be less likely to surprise those in charge.

    #57666

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    maybe there should be some difference between the penalty recieved for a direct self kill, and a secondary self kill resulting from an enemy death event. it might be cool if we could have two sets of self kill stats.

    #57667

    tumbleweed
    Participant

    @laptops Daddy wrote:

    maybe there should be some difference between the penalty recieved for a direct self kill, and a secondary self kill resulting from an enemy death event. it might be cool if we could have two sets of self kill stats.

    That makes sense to me!

    How about a penalty for excessive resigns in the same game?

    (runs and ducks for cover…)

    #57668

    naka
    Participant

    @laptops Daddy wrote:

    maybe there should be some difference between the penalty recieved for a direct self kill, and a secondary self kill resulting from an enemy death event. it might be cool if we could have two sets of self kill stats.

    Self kill from an enemy death is good thing. It brings to the game some random elements, unexpections, surprises.

    But the self kills from an enemy death happend mostly from funkyes. If we use ‘Armslevel’, there will be a very minimum penalty : e.g.-5 points, because funky is very powerfull weapon.

    This may have the same result as having 2 separate slots – 1 for direct self kill, and 2nd for a kill from an enemy death.

    #57669

    BOY
    Participant

    Self kills should be a harsher penalty for higher ranked players, as any death is harsher on the higher level players.

    Resigns should at least cost money, at least for purposes of main server games they should. C’mon people. We’re professionals.

    example.

    Chess.

    The ladder system of scoring we use, at its roots, is a system designed for a series of matches between individuals or teams, ranking oponents by their corresponding points. One player wins, skill goes up, the loser, goes down. After a series of games, you begin to see the better players excel. Lets say a player resigned a game of chess. Would he, should he, lose points?

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