This topic contains 10 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Thrax 10 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #5375

    Thrax
    Participant

    @bobirov wrote:

    @thrax wrote:

    If the shot was dead-on, the bullet pierced the armor to damage
    the player. But now that the shield’s are no longer hollow, neither
    this, nor driving inside is any help.

    AFAIK, damage has ALWAYS applied to the user’s shield first, regardless
    of the position of the damage. I have actually worked on the source in
    this area a bit (okay, I fixed a minor bug there woo) and I remember that
    being the case. That is why things like the old mag shield (when it was
    just a halfshielded reflect shield) would take damage without the player
    being hurt even if you snuck a shot in below the shield.

    Returning to and splitting…
    Shield’s are Currently Solid (like a Marble). This has not always been so.

    Before v.40, it was a valid tactic to drive inside a targets shield to bbm
    them directly. It would not apply the damage to the shield, it damaged
    the player first.

    While the shields were “hollow”, players complained about the driving tactic.
    From which, Gavin added the Tag for . to allow shields to
    prevent driving thru. But at the same time, changed shield function to
    make them solid marbles. Making the
    instantly obsolete
    and redundant.

    As of v.40, Explosion damage done to a player is “always” applied to
    the shield first; Reguardless of the shooters position, outside or inside, of
    the targets Shield.

    A bbm does 100 hp damage to an unshielded player. If some were
    applied to the shield first, as is current. A bbm fired at point-blank will
    not kill the shielded player.

    this added change, also added the shield-first effect to all other types,
    including Half-shield mags and solid “Umbrella’s” which are intended to
    leave the underside exposed.
    Firing at an “Umbrella” shielded player from beneath, Does not strike
    the player; it damages the shield..

    #40683

    cbx550f
    Participant

    I just tested this with v41, and the behavior appears to be as you desire it to be. The shot in the image below is a baby missile from the non-shielded tank, and it resulted in instant destruction of both.

    #40684

    Thrax
    Participant

    @cbx550f wrote:

    I just tested this with v41, and the behavior appears to be as you desire it to be. The shot in the image below is a baby missile from the non-shielded tank, and it resulted in instant destruction of both.

    the unshielded player was killed by the blast, that is certain. did his
    death-blast effect the shielded player?

    In many mods with larger shields, i’ve tested with no deathactions.

    In a super-sized shield that can contain both players,
    point-blank shots effect only the shield first.
    Start

    Move and shield

    baby missile 0.8<
    Shot 1- direct hit taken by shield

    shot 2- direct hit
    shot 2- direct hit taken by shield

    shot 3- direct hit
    shot 3- direct hit broke shield and damaged player

    #40685

    Thrax
    Participant

    @thrax wrote:

    this added change, also added the shield-first effect to all other types,
    including Half-shield mags and solid “Umbrella’s” which are intended to
    leave the underside exposed.
    Firing at an “Umbrella” shielded player from beneath, Does not strike
    the player; it damages the shield..

    Targetting below helmet

    Shot 1 – Shield take’s damage, tank falls

    Shot 2 – Shield take’s damage, tank falls

    Shot 3 – Shield take’s damage, tank falls

    Shot 4 – Shield take’s damage, tank falls

    #40686

    cbx550f
    Participant

    I think I see what you mean now – sorry – it never sunk in before.

    Could you send me the accessories.xml you used in those pics?
    I’d like to test it out, but I’m lazy. 😉

    #40687

    Thrax
    Participant

    @cbx550f wrote:

    I think I see what you mean now – sorry – it never
    sunk in before.

    Could you send me the accessories.xml you used in those pics?
    I’d like to test it out, but I’m lazy. 😉

    It’s called Merge mod … 😀 Freely available any time.
    3.7mb

    now that you grasp my meaning, i’m sure you also understand the
    problem it creates in making shields perform to desired specs.

    Bobirov also may have seen this effect.
    In his Op-Scorched Fortresses, the over-head roof shields were “umbrella”
    type. Yet they block someone shooting from one cell of it to another as if
    the air below them were a solid marble of the shield.

    #40688

    jdog
    Participant

    @thrax wrote:

    While the shields were “hollow”, players complained about the driving tactic.
    From which, Gavin added the Tag for . to allow shields to
    prevent driving thru. But at the same time, changed shield function to
    make them solid marbles. Making the instantly obsolete
    and redundant.

    The movement proof tag isn’t redundent it is usefull in Op Scorh to keep tank from moving though the shield in the middle of the map and I think weapons that have a larger radius(or projectied explosions) will affect unshielded tanks that hide inside someone elses shield, if there not on the same team.

    #40689

    Thrax
    Participant

    @jdog wrote:

    @thrax wrote:

    While the shields were “hollow”, players complained about the driving tactic.
    From which, Gavin added the Tag for . to allow shields to
    prevent driving thru. But at the same time, changed shield function to
    make them solid marbles. Making the instantly obsolete
    and redundant.

    The movement proof tag isn’t redundent it is usefull in Op Scorch to keep
    tank from moving though the shield in the middle of the map and I think
    weapons that have a larger radius(or projectied explosions) will affect
    unshielded tanks that hide inside someone elses shield, if there not on the
    same team.

    Ah.. yes, you are right in that aspect. For purposes other than one
    players shield stopping a drive-in tactic. Placement walls, or a player
    using a large shield blocking a travel path is still a valid use for
    move-proof.

    We do know however.. Due to experience in op-scorched. 2 parties can
    fire at each other inside a shield that is created by neither of them.
    But not from outside a shield to a player within it, like between cells of the
    fortresses. But those are also “half-shields”… which by nature should not
    block any of the lower-elevation shots.. proving that the “half” is in visual
    only.

    I’ll Go test the shielding effect of 3rd party players under the Eco-dome
    next. Team or not, a blast should be avoided by players within it.

    #40690

    jdog
    Participant

    I just remembered where I saw the weapon damaging a tank though a shield. I have a weapon in my mod called Shield Trap. ( I don’t remember if its in the last released version of not.

    Upon impact the weapon releases a target that creats a movement proof shield about it, nothing can move though it and any tank inside that shield will take damage from projected explosions unless the tank has it own shield about it.

    Also, hollow shields would make it too easy to drop rollers and then put a shield about a tank to blow it up. I was trying to do that drop, roller about a shielded tank and then set up a shield about the shielded tank to keep the rollers close to the tank.

    #40691

    Thrax
    Participant

    @jdog wrote:

    I just remembered where I saw the weapon damaging a
    tank though a shield. I have a weapon in my mod called Shield Trap. ( I
    don’t remember if its in the last released version of not.

    The shield trap is still in the latest version of the mod hosted, unless
    you’ve worked on it more and not told anyone.

    Tested.. and True, stray players in the shield are effected by splash damage.
    The shielding effect only protects the shield’s creator fully. 3rd party
    players within it are only protected by it’s size, if the impact/explosion is
    far enough from them. Larger sized shields will protect other stray
    players if they are in a safe spot. If more large shields are overlapping, it
    boosts the protection for all.

    @jdog wrote:

    Also, hollow shields would make it too easy to drop rollers
    and then put a shield about a tank to blow it up. I was trying to do that
    drop, roller about a shielded tank and then set up a shield about the
    shielded tank to keep the rollers close to the tank.

    so far, i don’t believe rollers are stopped from ‘exiting’ a shield. it should
    only effect players driving, and rollers/etc bouncing off the outside.
    although.. that does give us good ideas for more evil weapons: 😈

    #40692

    imported_gcamp
    Participant

    You are correct.

    In effect having (raising) a shield has two effects:
    1) Any damage you take is 1st taken from the shield power (except for falling damage).
    2) It will stop the missile earlier (or bounce it). Causing the blast radius to be further from the tank (so taking less damage).

    It was done this way because it was easy. But as far as I know its been this way since the beginning.

    #40693

    Thrax
    Participant

    @gcamp wrote:

    You are correct.

    In effect having (raising) a shield has two effects:
    1) Any damage you take is 1st taken from the shield power (except for
    falling damage).
    2) It will stop the missile earlier (or bounce it). Causing the blast radius to
    be further from the tank (so taking less damage).

    It was done this way because it was easy. But as far as I know its been
    this way since the beginning.

    Fair enough then. It does mean tho, that the effect of a Half-shield on a
    globe shield is purely cosmetic, offering no more or less protection above,
    below, or inside. a projectile fired at the lower area of an “umbrella” size
    50, will still impact the empty air as if a shield existed there.

    On the upside, it did let me discover more ability in Mag’s. Making them
    halfshield>false allowed them to repel shots from more coverage, and
    allow me to apply the laserproof> tag, creating Laser Proof Mags.

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