August 30, 2010 at 7:05 pm #62350
thanks rom, now i feel like a total dick. I did understand you were pointing out a loop hole in the rules.
Its just as a human one would think that maybe some rules are left defacto, i cant remember the last time i farted into a church microphone when congregation was present. Its just something you dont do.
I dont think the rules quite ascertain mannerisms, which is why i believe so many people dislike you rommel. You dont violate the rules, just your mannerisms upset many.(i bet they wish there was a no rommel rule.)
Thanks for the encouraging words rom!
Edit** Yes, your post was deleted.I read it before it was deleted. I have no feif in this argument though,as my posts were not deleted.
I believe whoever deleted them felt it was necessary.August 30, 2010 at 7:26 pm #62351
Edit** I just re-read benders post, and realized i had just suggested what he said wasnt the problem.
Bender, Who are you unhappy with? All i see is people trying to improve the game on gavins behalf, i dont think gavin would allow someone to trash his game.. at least not without his permission (<- aha horrible thought here).
I have seen some questionable deletions of posts lately, and it does sadden me. The whole point of a forum is so people can talk and reason.. its kind of hard to talk when you dont have a voice/post….
The only time posts should be deleted is when they contain spam, or are offensive to those reading them. Offensive is a strict definition here, not an open one, just becase you dont like what they have to say does not mean its offensive.. its critical… and you cannot delete a post for criticallity and not expected to be called out on it.
I ask those deleting the posts to reconsider this, as it is un professional and can eventually lead to them being removed from their honored post of mooderator/admin/whatever allows them to moderate the forums..
talk leads to reason- reason leads to effort- effort leads to change-
If there is no talk resulting in reason there will be no effort for that player to stay, and we will miss out on that players contribution to change.
I posted this thread as a way of trying to find out if there is a solution. Not an attack on you BOY.
I think what kept some of the old veterans around was was this profound loyalty to keeping things the same. This also turned off a few people from staying as well, as they saw that things were more or less stagnant, and lost interest quickly.
I’m fairly sure that the ‘old veterans’ did’nt leave because of the above. I just think the changes made it too much a different game for some. Is there any evidence of anyone leaving beacause they thought it was ‘stagnant’?
When people like me tried to change things and create some havoc and variety, it irritated some of the veterans, like Acid for instance, who stopped playing as much.
I did tell you I quite liked the changes on the admin forum. I stopped playing as much because there was no one to play.
The ultimate killer however, is that new people are not trying the game out. We’re not competing well with the stuff that is out there. Remakes are not where it is at. Where it is at is Xbox, Wii, iPhone apps, or whatever.
I agree. Changes were’nt the problem. Exposure was (IMO)
That is the key problem. The old people moved on, no new ones came.
I’ve checked servers off and on for weeks, never see a game. I love Thrax and his mods are fantastic, I don’t find them challenging personllay, I was always after the sniper types and trying to kill them.
sorry for not being around in recent weeks, however, not too many people miss me now things are so glum.
Stop it man………..I’m going to cry. I would love to see you on here and would take great delight in blowing you upAugust 30, 2010 at 7:32 pm #62352
Reality is we dont know what others think. Additional we all look trough filters, what confirms our beliefs we accept what doesnt we reject, conformation bias. On top of that we project our own feelings onto others, we fool ourselves all the time.
So whats true then?
Depends on what reasoning one wants to use, anything can be rationalized.
What i reject is easily seen trough bullshit. Political lies to hurt others. Criticizing without being critical of one self. Such stuff, regardless of political direction. What i am talking about is demagoguery, populism it prevents to see reality as it is by denying facts which are needed for common sense.
What i like to believe is true is based on reasonable assumptions and open debate between people.
Debate is not the stuff on the US news networks, thats a very narrow band of opinion with exactly the right political flavour to suit the interests of those who own it.
Its also not the mantra of an ideology, religion or peculiar philosophy.
So i suppose i dont really have any place where i stand, but i know where i dont want to stand very well.
Great read, you make good points. I really hope this will lead to something good.
I was very active during v40, playing hours per day mainly on rommels apoc champions. After that and some time on the forums i lost hope. Sometime i dont play for months, then i check to see if there are any interesting games going on, usually on merge but they seems to be scarce these days.
This is a great game with potential, how to get it to work needs a really good rethink about what we want it to be. I have my own ideas about what it should be but suggestions i made don’t seem to interest anyone really.
Better communication and some sort of feedback system with the players seems to be key to me.August 30, 2010 at 7:52 pm #62353
What an Idea =D> Voting for Mandy? indeed this game is dying.
I’m saying it wouldnt be a problem naka, she would be voted back easily by the new admin crew, same with BigBear, and DeathBall.. They would have my vote.
They were sensible people, and missed sorely/
Afterall its really up to Gavin, let him have a bit of time mates, hes releasing v43.2 soon, lets find bugs! 😀
KangaAugust 30, 2010 at 7:56 pm #62354
There is so much damage to the scorched community.
Codding only isnt enough. Far more important are the ppl, the gameplay and how the things are organised.
To summarize, it must remain closed so that development of the game stays separate from the game’s community. When the game’s development being separate from its community is the ultimate problem and the reason for the existence of this thread, and to which you personally agree as being a problem. I hope you can see the paradox in this: problem X can be solved by Y, but we can’t do Y because we must preserve X, which is the problem.
I’ve been involved in a fair share of open source game-related projects, and have contributed to some of them. None of them have developers kept at a distance from the community. In fact, in some of them it’s hard to even draw a line between who is a “developer” and who is a “non-developer”, because almost everyone participates in brainstorming and contributes something, be it code or assets or testing. The more open the development process is, the more people will want to learn the skills to become involved in it. So even if you’re a douche and firmly believe that your own community is too stupid to contribute, an open development process is beneficial, as it fosters the intelligence of the community. Think about it.
There needs to be a hierarchy to the forums indeed to avoid confusion and disorder, which is why the admins and devs are seperate from forum goersAugust 30, 2010 at 7:56 pm #62355
I do -not- yet see total stagnation in the development process, simply going by the number of version changes. What I do see is a stagnation cycle starting.
I have seen this pattern of “detrimental changes -> players leave -> elitism starts -> admin power-grabs -> more players leaving -> development stagnates -> complaints, suggestions, and constructive criticism made and ignored -> more admin power-grabs -> development virtually stops -> even more players leaving -> game dies” several times in other games. It can happen quite quickly, sometimes in less than a year. It saddens me to see that Scorched also seems to be falling into this pattern. Whenever this pattern starts, it leads to the “more privileged” members of the community making power grabs, becoming (more) narcissistic, driving off players, and in the case of admins, banning other members who won’t kiss their posterior in addition to promoting the ones who do
Another thing I have noticed that is common in the above cycle is hypocrisy. Hypocrisy among “regular” members of any community often causes said members to be shunned by most. Hypocrisy among “privileged” members of any community often leads to many problems, and is never beneficial.
If you’re referring to me, I was simply comparing the cycle I’m seeing here to what I’ve seen elsewhere. However, you make a point in that the “game” and the “forums” are not one and the same – this was not the case elsewhere. Typically, when I see the stagnation cycle to which I referred occur, accounts are shared between the game aspect and the forum aspect. As such, the only aspect that I have seen recently is the forum, so I’m in no position to make predictions on where either is heading. On the other hand, I’ve seen things like this happen here before, and we as a community bounced back, so I’m hoping we can do so again.
Now, for relieving some tension.
*Slaps all present, including myself*
*Proceeds to arm a forty-megaton N2 warhead*
P.S. I gave some advice to a friend the other day, and I think it applies here as well (albeit in a different context): “If you aren’t clear with people, they’ll never know what you’re thinking.” As was stated before, there definitely seems to be a lack of communication – from all parties. “Cool down and say what you think (but avoid being intentionally derogatory)!”
Humans aren’t telepathic by nature, you know.
“Drop what’s in the past, it can’t be undone. Don’t forget it, just drop it as a marker, so you may avoid the same mistakes in the future.” -MeAugust 30, 2010 at 8:00 pm #62356
Bender those are some of my past arguments, before Rommel abused his admin responsibilities.
KangaAugust 30, 2010 at 8:11 pm #62357
These are all decent arguments from all different people, there was some hostility between them but compared to recent events it was paradise.Yet there were people who understood things were slipping.
And we let it happen, and we hate each other enough to stop listening.
If anyone thinks this should not stop and refuses to take their responsibility seriously they should be bug-checked.August 30, 2010 at 8:23 pm #62358
“): Re:Inactive People of honorable renown-> “Some Sort Of Forum Access”. . . .Not a vote to be an active Admin on the servers or in the forum-Geeesh
I also asked if the Old Players could be mentioned in some sort of Scorched3d Honorable Mention/Memorial/”Hall Of Fame” if you will. I forget where I posted that pointed rambling at. . . . . -looks in other browser tabs He has open… . .Oh, well ….You get my drift hopefully.
Sincerely bewildered look 😐August 30, 2010 at 9:57 pm #62359
I’ve been involved in a fair share of open source game-related projects, and have contributed to some of them. None of them have developers kept at a distance from the community. In fact, in some of them it’s hard to even draw a line between who is a “developer” and who is a “non-developer”, because almost everyone participates in brainstorming and contributes something, be it code or assets or testing………..
Ha ha thats Para, and the program is called Neverball.
Also too much quoting wont help. I belive all read this and all the forum posts.August 30, 2010 at 10:01 pm #62360
I brought->Copy/Pasted this from Gavins thread. (Not wanting to appear to be chatting with myself 😳
I nominate Naka in the running for “Server Admin”
My Apologies to Naka- (I some how overlooked you 😥 )
Naka-A long standing opinionated/sometimes gritty/Honest voice in this community concerning the game and its attributes/short comings. Apache/Long Bow-Also falls into this category in my mind(More Morality based)-Not a bad thing;We need both sides of a coin. I would vote for both of them-Even though I do not always agree with them-That is the beauty of a diverse forum membership/community.
Sometimes we have to give up a little of ourselves to benefit the sum of the whole involved.August 30, 2010 at 11:10 pm #62361
bender,bazz…………..I cant see the dates/threads these quotes are from.
May I ask what thread and relevance to vikings original post?
Not criticizing….just trying to understand and sort it out and need ya’lls help.
Vike posted about concerns and ideas…..and there is a veritable flood of quotes….with no reference.August 30, 2010 at 11:25 pm #62362
No reference is intentional, it would only distract from the reason in these posts.
Maybe seeing it together without the filter we look through will create some understanding for these sensible ideas.August 31, 2010 at 12:47 am #62363
No reference is intentional,…
oh i see….you did it on purpose…very helpful.August 31, 2010 at 12:52 am #62364
Thank you chopper for understanding.
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