This topic contains 84 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Rommel 8 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #50200

    pastor of muppets
    Participant

    “The boxer still gets his money for the win. Here, it’s more like a draw.”

    You still get the points for a round win no? The reward for a win in boxing is money the reward for a win in scorch is points.

    #50201

    BigBear
    Participant

    @jurily wrote:

    Alternatively, make resigns public the second they push that button, not just have them disappear out of nowhere. That gives a fair chance to the shooter too.

    Sounds to me like you want some sort of guarantee that ppl won’t resign on you when you decide to save killing them for later to be able to shoot for another target earlier. Personally I think that’s a calculated risk that you should have to consider.

    @laptops Daddy wrote:

    No, this would make the resign option a resign option, rather than a cheater’s aid to losing badly : )

    This is a completely new side of you to me Lappy. I knew that you like to wind ppl up, but this whole I am holier than thou ’cause I am the king of morality and the defender of honour I didn’t see coming. Quite an interesting development I have to say.

    #50202

    Rommel
    Participant

    Casting the wrong vote is a common problem among those that vote first and seek education later. The poll might have provided better results if it was presented after the discussion instead of before. 😉 @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    @deathbal wrote:

    The problem with resigns in previous versions was that no one got any assists for making you resign.

    I was unaware until today (about 2 hours ago) that an assist was still given even with a resign.
    This changes my mind a little as I have won and lost a couple of games purely due to assists, plus the additional cash you get can be rather helpful early on (not so later in the game as it such a small amount).

    However, the actual poll is about whether it should be classed as a self kill. I believe it should be classed as a self kill at the moment there is no punishment for resigning.

    In sports you are nearly always punished (again, for want of a better word), whether handing th initiative to your opponent, foreiting a game (which you have already lost the round anyway in scorched) or something similar.

    Where does that exist here?

    Remove a kill, take off points, take the first move of the next round away, something!

    “Where does that exist here?”
    There is no additional penalty extraced for resigning, IF, AND ONLY IF, (which is almost always) you would have died otherwise.

    Now, suppose the one that was killing you got knocked in a hole by someone else during the shot when you hit resign. Now they can’t kill you, they are damaged, and someone is about to kill them. You are saved! Too late, you’ve already resigned. You just lost the award you might have recieved for completing the round.

    So, although I was forced to vote no (due to the wording) I was leaning toward on_ice’s original proposal of removing a kill. I’m not convinced that a change is required but this conversation is a good idea. My issue wasn’t his proposal, but simply the wording “honourable retirement” (funny stuff) and the reason (me) for which it was proposed.

    Extracting a kill for a resign isn’t a big deal to me either way. I adapt pretty quickly and in all honesty, this still prevents the kill and awards from going to the opponent at the cost of losing a previous kill. That seems like a fair balance to me as long as a real self-kill provides a harsher penalty.

    As for the poll, I had to vote No as it was the best answer allowed at the time. No it’s not. A resign is not the same as a self kill.

    I think I can say the following without much fear, due to being the number 1 self killer in a few stat series (damn rollers) and on the bottom of the list in resignations. 😉

    A self kill is an act of stupidity! A resignation is an act of desperation and/or frustrration. These are two seperate issues, with entirely different motivating factors and should most likely have seperate penalties.

    After all interested parties are satisfied that ample time has been provided for disussion, perhaps we should run another poll (I work for the McCain campaign and they paid me to say that). 😉

    Other than not playing at all, resignation is my only valid reply to the hack and since I now suspect that even I’ve been using it (see self kills) I’m likely to resign on anyone at anytime. I don’t like it but that’s the way it is until I’m convinced that a solution has been implemented.

    Rommel grabs his sword and jumps up onto the table waving it wildly while kicking plates and wine gobblets about as he stides to and fro –

    Honor! We have theives freely walking into our home, eating our food, drinking our wine and we speak of honor! Should we feel “honored” that our home was choosen instead of the neighbors? We need to speak less of honor, for thieves have no honor! Instead dear brothers, would it not be best, to speak with a carpenter about building a door!

    I love theatrics. 😳

    Yes, I thought it was funny that it made on_ice angry. I’ve been told that I have a twisted sense of humor.

    More later,

    Rommel

    #50203

    Rommel
    Participant

    To All:

    I wasn’t making the suggestion POM is trying to run with. Further, I can find no valid reason to ask Gavin to change the code for this issue alone. It’s not a little tweek to an XML file we are discussing, just so we’re all on the same page.@pastor of muppets wrote:

    OK we can fix this one easy. Let’s all just call our shots. Before anyone fires call out who you are shooting at and then no one else can shoot at that player, he is marked and must remain still, no fuel, no tele, no resign until the player that called him first gets to kill him. This will make the game more honorable and sporting and prevent everyone from targeting the same player. Then maybe LD won’t theive me so damn much because it will be understood that when I target someone I have earned the right to kill that someone especially if I get close enough to wound them. Then the game will be the most honorable sporting game on the internet.

    I am perfectly content with my ability to provoke the rage I apparently provoked by doing nothing except failing to credit another badly needed win to someone that just fired their last big weapon at me only to find that I’m no longer there.

      Side note: Pssst, Hey POM. As the top resigner in the last set of stats and the second most often player to resign in this set, perhaps you might want to slowly back out of the room before anyone else notices. 😉 This could get messy.

    I was one of the least frequent to resign and until recently I had zero resigns in this series. The one I used on Vitos a week or so back was in jest but it felt REALLY GOOD, maybe too good but all the same, I’ve decided to make use of it when it suites me.

    In trying to find a means available (in the game) to help me against the hack users (sadly, there remains no means of prevention) I decided that an in depth analysis of the stats might be a good idea. Much to my surprise and amazement, I found that the “top” players seem to be much more comfortable with resigning than I. SHAZAAM !!! Whooda thunkit ???

    So, although on_ice has refused to resign thus far this series, and has done quite well in the rankings, he’s had the option available just as long as the rest of us. Obviously he plays well enough not to feel the same level of frustration I’ve experienced lately, but I’m helping him with that quite nicely and expect you’ll be seeing some resignations from him soon.

    Rommel

    #50204

    xtc
    Participant

    @laptops Daddy wrote:

    i’m not usually one to argue semantics, but ‘resignation’ in english means something specific (as does ‘unsporting’). i.e. concession of defeat, you lose, your opponent would have won anyway, so you give up.

    World of this game is a different universe creating a very different specific context for all the words used.

    Do you really bleed when your tank is hit in game?
    Do you really get burns when your tank is surrounded with blazing napalm?

    I think you must die in Real Life when get killed in scorched next time. Then you are welcome to apply RL-meanings of words here 😉

    @pastor of muppets wrote:

    OK we can fix this one easy. Let’s all just call our shots. Before anyone fires call out who you are shooting at and then no one else can shoot at that player, he is marked and must remain still, no fuel, no tele, no resign until the player that called him first gets to kill him. This will make the game more honorable and sporting and prevent everyone from targeting the same player. Then maybe LD won’t theive me so damn much because it will be understood that when I target someone I have earned the right to kill that someone especially if I get close enough to wound them. Then the game will be the most honorable sporting game on the internet.

    LOL!
    We need to have timer for the first shot increased to… hmm… 3 hours maybe? It is that long the debates about WHOS RIGHT TO KILL WHO will last.

    @laptops Daddy wrote:

    restrict the kind of underhanded resignations we’ve been talking about above?

    Where? I dont see anything about underhanded resignations. I dont even understand how can they be underhanded. Because someone shoots too bad to hit? But in this case, isnt the very being in the game underhanded?

    Well… time has come to confess my crime. Every time when you shoot and don’t hit me – it is my cheating.

    @jurily wrote:

    You’re right, I didn’t have anything useful to say. LD said it before me: Award the kill to the last player to damage the resigning one. That way everyone’s happy.

    I definitely WONT be happy when people start getting kill points for nothing. (Ah, sorry. Thats not nothing. Thats GREAT SHOTS of diggers.)

    @jurily wrote:

    Alternatively, make resigns public the second they push that button, not just have them disappear out of nowhere. That gives a fair chance to the shooter too.

    Resigns ARE public. Message is displayed on everyone’s screen.
    What fair chance are you speaking of? Resign happens ONLY AFTER all explosions explode, all napalms burn, all rollers roll.
    Shall I understand what you wrote the way: “We are making great shots and these guys are disappearing”. Open your eyes. If someone managed to disappear, means your shot sucked.

    #50205

    pastor of muppets
    Participant

    I’m a top resigner? I didn’t even notice 😳 I have no honor then, or honour or I suck. I don’t think there is a direct connection with resigning and stats if you will look to the right side of the stat screen I believe it’s a bit more connected with the fact that I have no life and seem to be addicted to this silly little game. I play a bit too much I think.

    Resigning is like coffee (or Tea for the Brit LD) you see others hooked to it and wonder how they got that way. So you try it once and it’s bitter taste shocks you at first but then later you get this rush of energy. So you try it again and it’s a little thrill and you didn’t really notice the bitterness so much. Now I resign without thinking, I’m hurt I can’t reach I have no batts or fuel…resign *tada!* It’s not meant to upset anyone really I just do it because it is the thing that makes the most sense.

    #50206

    Rommel
    Participant

    Great stuff, truely funny.

    @xtc wrote:


    Well… time has come to confess my crime. Every time when you shoot and don’t hit me – it is my cheating.

    Shall I understand what you wrote the way: “We are making great shots and these guys are disappearing”. Open your eyes. If someone managed to disappear, means your shot sucked.

    Too bad the writers strike is over we might have had a chance.

    Later,

    Rommel

    #50207

    Jurily
    Participant

    @bigbear wrote:

    @jurily wrote:

    Alternatively, make resigns public the second they push that button, not just have them disappear out of nowhere. That gives a fair chance to the shooter too.

    Sounds to me like you want some sort of guarantee that ppl won’t resign on you when you decide to save killing them for later to be able to shoot for another target earlier. Personally I think that’s a calculated risk that you should have to consider.

    Okay, I think an example is in order then.

    Not too long ago, I was shooting at you. Shot 1: frog, you survived with 20-ish hp and I got a digger, so I had to reaim after that (now there was dirt in front of me, +40 deg). I shot with a baby missile, because I didn’t want to waste my remaining frog. I missed, you resigned, end of story.

    For the shot in question, it was close enough to kill you with a frog, far enough not to kill you if you had batteries, and definitely far enough not to hit you with a baby missile.

    Problem is this: had I known you were going to resign, would I have shot the same? Should I have known you don’t have any batts so you’re going to resign?
    Your lack of batteries should not make it harder for me to kill you. (Of course, that’s assuming that if you had had batteries, you would have used them and shoot happily ever after)

    As for the “another target earlier” argument, I don’t expect to live long enough to aim for two targets. I usually don’t 🙂

    #50208

    Jurily
    Participant

    @xtc wrote:

    @jurily wrote:

    You’re right, I didn’t have anything useful to say. LD said it before me: Award the kill to the last player to damage the resigning one. That way everyone’s happy.

    I definitely WONT be happy when people start getting kill points for nothing. (Ah, sorry. Thats not nothing. Thats GREAT SHOTS of diggers.)

    For nothing? Then why do they have the urge to resign?

    @xtc wrote:

    @jurily wrote:

    Alternatively, make resigns public the second they push that button, not just have them disappear out of nowhere. That gives a fair chance to the shooter too.

    Resigns ARE public. Message is displayed on everyone’s screen.
    What fair chance are you speaking of? Resign happens ONLY AFTER all explosions explode, all napalms burn, all rollers roll.
    Shall I understand what you wrote the way: “We are making great shots and these guys are disappearing”. Open your eyes. If someone managed to disappear, means your shot sucked.

    Let me repeat that:
    @jurily wrote:

    Alternatively, make resigns public the second they push that button, not just have them disappear out of nowhere. That gives a fair chance to the shooter too.

    As in, you know, not when they disappear, but when I still have the option to switch weapons accordingly.
    Kind of like how gift money is immediately available and public, not just after the buy move is over.

    There is no useful information in the resign message when I can already see they disappeared.

    #50209

    pastor of muppets
    Participant

    I’m confused so his lack of batteries, should have made it easier for you to kill him? So let me get this straight if I can’t afford batts or forget to buy them I should just sit and wait for you to kill me? I’m just trying to clear this up because it sounds like if I don’t have batts and I’m injured I should just sit and wait to make it fair?

    I think I’m starting to understand here I need to let everyone know my intention of resigning so you can save your bigger weapons allowing you not to spend more money next round so you can build interest and have a bunch of money to spend on neat stuff. That would then make me an honourable sporting kind of fella.

    #50210

    Rommel
    Participant

    It’s better sometimes to sit quietly in the corner and hope no one sees you.@jurily wrote:


    As for the “another target earlier” argument, I don’t expect to live long enough to aim for two targets. I usually don’t 🙂

    The testimony presented above is obviously a fabrication and thus makes the entire testimony of the witness suspect. This jury is asked to note that the witness is currently ranked #3 and asked to disregard his entire testimony in this case. The witness is dismissed. Balif, please escort the witness to the jail where he will be held until he can be tried on the capitol offense of perjury.

    Rommel

    #50211

    BigBear
    Participant

    BD and I just discussed resigning a bit and he came up with an idea that I kinda liked. He sorta convinced me that resigning could have a slightly higher cost and came up with what I consider a really nice solution. His idea was to introduce a “weapon” like the teleport to enable you to resign. It could for example be moderately priced so that it would be difficult to afford early in the game but very useful as a tactical weapon later in the game. It all sounded pretty good to me.

    #50212

    Jurily
    Participant

    @pastor of muppets wrote:

    I’m confused so his lack of batteries, should have made it easier for you to kill him? So let me get this straight if I can’t afford batts or forget to buy them I should just sit and wait for you to kill me? I’m just trying to clear this up because it sounds like if I don’t have batts and I’m injured I should just sit and wait to make it fair?

    I think I’m starting to understand here I need to let everyone know my intention of resigning so you can save your bigger weapons allowing you not to spend more money next round so you can build interest and have a bunch of money to spend on neat stuff. That would then make me an honourable sporting kind of fella.

    At no point did I mention anything he should have done differently. Nor did I mention anything about ideological stuff like morality, honor, whatever. He played to the best of his abilities, and he should definitely do so.

    It’s in the game, go ahead and use it. I was just trying to point out a couple of issues in the gameplay that make the game a lot less fun for me.

    Btw, why do you think batteries are in the game? Why do you think they cost money?

    #50213

    Thrax
    Participant

    There are 3 settings for Resign in the server cfg.
    ResignStart
    ResignEnd
    ResignDueToHealth

    The last, which most hosts use, is the best balance.
    If the player isn’t damaged, the resign is immediate. If you have
    hit them, then it gives you 1 chance to finish them off.

    The penalty for a resign, is to forfiet any money gained at round
    end that doesn’t apply to kills or cash-4-damage. In mains, the reward
    for surviving a round is rather substantial, so it’s a large loss they are
    accepting.
    Adding a further point penalty or cash removal could be considered.. as
    an optional setting. As it’s not a self-kill, the penalty shouldn’t be as
    severe. Gracefully accepting defeat is far different from suicide.

    As Resigning will never gain them a win, you shouldn’t be that opposed
    to the idea. It’s as much harm to thier ego to ‘chicken-out’, as it is for
    you to fail to kill them..

    #50214

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    @bigbear wrote:

    This is a completely new side of you to me Lappy. I knew that you like to wind ppl up, but this whole I am holier than thou ’cause I am the king of morality and the defender of honour I didn’t see coming. Quite an interesting development I have to say.

    @Ezekiel 25:17 wrote:

    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and goodwill, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger, those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord, when I lay my vengeance upon you.

    We should play more, BBear : ) [bowing Japanese style]

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