This topic contains 42 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  BOY 8 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #6968

    xtc
    Participant

    Yesterday we had the opening match, that has clearly shown the weak points of the tournament setup to me. I have had revealed some already in my post in the other thread, basing on my experience on the practice server. However, that experience was not complete since I wasn’t able to have a game equal by the competitors staff there.

    We are a strong team, but the other team is the one to be real challenge. No way I would claim before the match that «we are going to win for sure».

    And, even with all twists of fate with positioning etc., I woudn’t expect the final difference to be more than 150:100 success ratio whichever team would win.

    …You all can see the results of the match, it is nearly 10 times difference in score: 5:0 round wins and three time as much kills by us.

    Part of this, was the problems Mouse was having with staying connected. (3 vs 2) x 3 lives = quite a disbalance. But only a part.

    So I am to emphasize things that I see as being very much wrong.

    We all know that for any two tanks on the map taken there can be better and worse positions. In a regular team game, where tanks locations are distributed, various positions of each team tanks tend to create a general balance in positions.

    But, with teams ascribed to separate zones, the positions of a whole team are affected as one. Many maps may have clearly pronounced inequality in the teams positions.

    Together with resurrection tied to the same area, it is a repetitive disadvantage; beyond that alone serious disadvantage that the very resurrection in nearly the same point has.

    Having an advantageous first round like this means alot for the following game course. Having two in turn…

    I suppose that symmetric maps like in the Apoc mod could reduce this problem somewhat. But in general, the ideas of multiple lives and restricted team positions do not come along in Scorched. I understand that the last is designed to make the whole concept of team strike thing as it is.

    The least needs to be done to fix that is to have a lot of tuning and configuration of various things aimed at reducing mentioned weakness.

    The game we had was not really challengeable starting with round 1 where our team had placement advantage. In round 2, we did have it again. Following rounds did not really matter with us being rich already and them being poor. Not a game I could enjoy.

    I am sorry friends, that is not very good to discuss such things, but I know that it could all be the opposite and me, not you in such positions and with such result in the end. You fought well and granny bad luck had to quit her attempts to laugh at you and shut up.

    Wish it were different, but I expect more games with results like this in the tournament. I may be wrong, though. It just the fact that the gang we played with – each of them are rather themselves to have 10:1 score against the most of other players, but not to be in such position.

    We’ll see…

    #57260

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    How did I know this was coming.

    Okay, I’m clearly going to have to explain what happened.

    The Vegies played BADLY, I’m sure they will admit that, a team playing badly against one that plays well is unlikely to have much success.

    Ontop of that Mouse missed 1.5 rounds of that game, she also bought nothing in the first round, meaning easy kills (it was spotted instantly by Videshi). This helped to give Videshi a big advantage in the first round, which, SHOULD have an impact on the rest of the match.
    Should we write off to the organisors of the 100m sprint race and say it’s unfair if one person gets a cracking start, they should slow down in the middle to let everyone else catch up to make it fair? NO, he got a good start and deserves the lead!

    This gave Videshi ahead start which they used to good effect.

    Also, Tnick was mean’t to have been playing for the Vegies not Mouse and no offense to Mouse at all, but Tnick is a much stronger player, which would have been better given their opponents.

    Another aspect was that Mouse had little playing time with the mod previously, this again is important as the mod brings completely different tactics than the default mod.

    Now, to address your suggestions.

    Different maps: Might have worked, however, I find symetrical maps boring, gotta make the best of the enviroment you have.

    Tweaking tank resurrect locations: Yea, great, but that’s scorched code as far as I know, so wouldn’t be possible.

    Implimenting all those tweaks prior to the tournament would have required ALOT of work, seeing as you have made absolutely ZERO effort in actually trying to help us impliment this, I find really rather amazing you have the nerve to be SO critical of the effort that’s been expended when help has been requested for such tweaks.

    It is hoped that with all the work that’s been put in for these tournaments can be packaged up for the next guy to make it far easier for them.
    IN the mean time, many tweaks will be made to it taking into account what we’ve learn’t, however, the people doing the work here both have jobs, and have other things to do as a hobby, instead they’re doing it out of the kindness of their hearts to give something to the scorched community.

    We shall be watching the matches that occur and are taking notes on things that need tweaking and will impliment them after the tournament ready to be made fully public.
    I am considering making a teams server after the tournament with the mod, once the tank selection issue has been resolved within the scorched code.

    #57261

    xtc
    Participant

    Why do you keep looking into past? Nothing is being said for blame, everything is said for the future.

    Sorry but I can’t see how that I couldn’t be here earlier to help you is against providing my feedback now.

    Should we write off to the organisors of the 100m sprint race and say it’s unfair if one person gets a cracking start, they should slow down in the middle to let everyone else catch up to make it fair? NO, he got a good start and deserves the lead!

    That is the point of things lasting some time – one runner can make a better start, another one can make the best in the middle part, the third is at his peak in the end. The situation can change.

    You know the lines they draw in math, let the vertical line be value and the horizontal – time; the race is a type that may go up and down somewhat but is limited vertically. The scorched game is rather the one that climbs up steep and the farther it goes the higher it climbs with each equal period of time. Some difference by nature, there is.

    #57262

    Hyde911
    Participant

    I think that problem is not with positioning but with cash. There is to much money and it has to much influence on the game. First two rounds are decisive, who win them win whole game, because they will have a lot of money for toys.

    #57263

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    There’s nothing that can be done about money.
    If money was lowered, it would be still be a case of a team doing well and getting more money than the other.

    I did look at lowering the rewards for winning rounds n stuff, but if someone wins, they should be rewarded.

    I had been wanting to circumvent this issue by having teams play eachother twice, so the whole game would be started again.
    However, as it’s proving very hard to organise matches, I thought this would be taking things too far and would lead to suicides amoungst the captains 😀

    XTC.
    I am bringing up things from the past, because that’s what you’re doing.
    You’re saying changes should be implimented now or that the tournament should now be postponed until the tweaks can be made (which, given the number of testers we had would take about 6 months (however, thankyou to Hyde, Raden, Richie and Acid for ya help testing)).
    That’s simply not going to happen.

    This tournament might not be great, however, it’s mean’t to be a bit of fun, win or lose, can still have a laugh and bring people closer together.
    Hopefully the next tournament can build on the work done and get it closer to perfection (although perfection will never happen).

    #57264

    xtc
    Participant

    You’re saying changes should be implimented now or that the tournament should now be postponed until the tweaks can be made

    😯 Excuse me? Where am I saying that or even anything remotely alike? 🙄

    Relax mate! Dont let the emotions or summer heat take over your mind! We don’t want you to start seeing things and consequently be put into some establishment 😆

    #57265

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    @xtc wrote:

    You’re saying changes should be implimented now or that the tournament should now be postponed until the tweaks can be made

    😯 Excuse me? Where am I saying that or even anything remotely alike? 🙄

    Relax mate! Dont let the emotions or summer heat take over your mind! We don’t want you to start seeing things and consequently be put into some establishment 😆

    Um, maybe the timing of your post(s).
    Why post this now if you don’t want these changes implimenting asap?
    Why not wait until the tournament is complete and it’s possible to see everything as a whole, not taking a single match to be definative!

    All you’re achieving now is to mock the huge amount of effort that has been put in (mostly by Laptop, who has been a legend this past month) to bring this tournament to the community.
    A tournament that was requested. A large number of people wanted a team tournament or thought the idea was cool. We’ve simply tried to make it a ‘team tournament’ rather than just a collection of tanks scattered around who kind of play together.

    I think, on the whole, the aim of making it a ‘team tournament’ where players NEED to work together to achieve a favourable result has been a success.

    Now please, you wanna point out a large number of holes, wait un til the tournament is complete, it’s not going well as it is without badly timed critisism.
    There’s a time and a place for critisism, this is the place but certainly not the time.
    And no, I will not relax, if you realised the effort people have gone to for everyone including YOU, you might realise why your timing is really rather irritating!

    EDIT:
    Except for bugs/errors that are found and can be fixed without altering the game, this thread and anyother requesting changes is locked as far as I’m concerned until the end of the tournament when changes CAN be made and time will be available to impliment and test them.

    #57266

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    I suppose i need to post here.

    Personally, I expected and intended to dominate. It wasn’t an accident.

    @xtc wrote:

    Together with resurrection tied to the same area, it is a repetitive disadvantage; beyond that alone serious disadvantage that the very resurrection in nearly the same point has.

    Resurrection in a nearby area also gives the resurrected player an advantage. I do agree that random placements and the unsymmetrical nature of the maps has potential to throw off the balance, but I didn’t notice a problem with that in this game.

    If you’d like some anaylsis of the game from my perspective…

    I know each of the enemy player’s playing styles very well and I was very selective about who i killed first in each round. It’s true that we had a significant monetary advantage by round 3. Saving cash is a tactic and we put it to good use. This is not an mcb tournament. If you play badly and make poor weapons choices in the early rounds, or don’t communicate properly with your team, you can expect a cascade effect in the closing rounds.

    Mouse’s kicks were unfortunate. I pretty much skipped round 4, partly due to being distracted by the kicks. Yusuf completely messed up his team strike in round 3, wasting several moves and a huge amount of cash. And xtc, you’re rusty (as am I) and it did show. It could have been worse. You know it’s true.

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    Also, Tnick was mean’t to have been playing for the Vegies not Mouse and no offense to Mouse at all, but Tnick is a much stronger player, which would have been better given their opponents.

    I disagree. If you check the logs, you’ll notice I targeted Mouse consistently. Again, this wasn’t an accident.

    Congratulations to xtc and Yusuf. Commiserations to the losers. That’s the way the cookie crumbles.

    If anyone from the other team has something to add, I’d like to hear it.

    #57267

    xtc
    Participant

    PeanutsRevenge
    Why do you antagonise my posting so much? I admitted I was too emotional the other post, but I apologized. I am getting frustrated seeing you getting so much negative from what I say. Please, try to change your mind.

    One of the reasons to have this posted is to make people aware. You’ve said it:
    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    This tournament might not be great, however, it’s mean’t to be a bit of fun, win or lose, can still have a laugh and bring people closer together.

    I know I would be upset to lose LIKE THAT. Top players do not lose like that often you know. Veggies took the strike, now, may it be for the other’s sake at least?

    If we keep silent about what happens and why, then every new game if going the same course will result in some people being very upset. Now people can know that things may come this way and just be aware its not much of their fault. People won’t feel much negative if it happens. Isn’t that good?

    Also, it gives a chance for people to think carefully of a counter tactics in advance. (As for me, excessive use of fuel is the only that comes into my mind that might work.) Isn’t that good too?

    In fact, it is as much good as you are right in your point that it can be dealt with. We are letting people learn from other’s experience, thats what its called.

    @laptops Daddy wrote:

    Personally, I expected and intended to dominate. It wasn’t an accident.

    Its a bad player who doesn’t intend to win. The point I bring up is the results difference.

    What advantage do you see for the resurrected player except an occasional terrain-lucky spot?

    #57268

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    @xtc wrote:

    What advantage do you see for the resurrected player except an occasional terrain-lucky spot?

    given that youre resurrected with full health and the same weapons you had before, the advantage is equivalent to that seen by the attacking player. ie youve already found your range and can pick up where you left off.

    of course youd be at a serious disadvantage if you happened to get placed in a quirky spot in a crevice or something twice in a row. ive yet to see that happen.

    #57269

    Raden
    Participant

    @laptops Daddy wrote:

    If anyone from the other team has something to add, I’d like to hear it.

    It was a one sided match, first round threw me off bcos i was expecting the other team not to buy anything other than missiles really. Your team’s choice of weapons in the first round helped you a lot and you ended up collecting more money, which is always an advantage. Wrong tactics on our part I guess.

    Placement wise, I think the first 2 rounds your team had better placements, but that is the luck of the draw, can’t complain much about that. Only way to save ourselves then was to buy lots of fuel to spread ourselves out wide apart but considering our team’s financial status at that time..well… 🙂 …maybe tactically we should have bought the fuel and the weapons.

    Mouse was having connection problems. It’s not like she was afk and doing something else during that period. Well…..that’s the risks you have to take in a team tourney…..bad net connection…..2 vs 3

    Finally, I think the 3 things I mentioned above wouldn’t have mattered that much if I had been sharper……I was missing targets like crazy 😕

    #57270

    NoMoreSteve
    Participant

    … and the fact that you guys were playing at 2:00am PST. 😛

    Not saying that I would have been any help, but I had to whine somewhere. 😀

    #57271

    pastor of muppets
    Participant

    We had our first match today and I liked the way it was set up. We were playing poorly Outer, Ellie and I 😳 . They were playing well they were rewarded for doing well. I will say do not judge the server by the lopsidedness of our score, Outer had an appointment and the game took longer than he thought it would so he had to leave, our son was staying the night with someone and they showed up to pick him up in the middle of the game, our daghter had someone staying the night and they showed up in the middle of the game, my parents (who never call) called in the middle of the game and talked for 3 of the rounds our score should be lopsided.

    Grats Parasti, Big Bear and Bazzz =D> well played!

    Next time maybe we should do it at 2 a.m. our time at least the only thing happening at our house will be the dog snoaring 😀

    And if you haven’t noticed by now I’m looking for any and every excuse I can come up with 🙂

    #57272

    bazzz
    Participant

    Thank you POM.

    #57273

    xtc
    Participant

    @Team Tournament Score Page wrote:

    Videshi Ganda – Accumulated Score – 6666

    Aren’t we scary? 😀

    The record is 20 kills/game for now set by Hyde911, good game!

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