This topic contains 9 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  PeanutsRevenge 3 years, 7 months ago.

  • Author
    Posts
  • #7804

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    @armorwraith wrote:

    most people are conformist, self-centered, and downright rude.

    ooh oooh oooh, I’m one of them, I’m one of them!

    Yippee!!! Does that mank me a conformist too, please let it be so, then I can stick “Two out of Three ain’t bad” on and sing along!
    Yippee!!

    #66164

    Deathbal
    Participant

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    I would like to encourage you to watch the 3 Zeitgeist films I linked in the oil thread, I believe you’ll find them most informative and certainly very challenging especially if you’re thinking of working for that bunch of ****** *** ** ***** ** * **** **** ****!!!!!!!!!!

    I watched the second video and halfway through it I said, tell me something I don’t already know. But the second half had me surprisingly intrigued. For a capitalist pig such as myself, that says a lot. They talked about things I never even fathomed. But I have always been one to keep an open mind. Or at least I try to see an alternate POV whether I like it or not.

    Maybe the Venus Project could be tested on some remote island with a few hundred thousand people. But the key to that is abundance. Without it, it falls apart. It is a very interesting theory.

    I do see one problem however. I don’t think it will ever be done at a large scale. Because if our monetary system fails and the “poop” hits the fan, we will only regress, not progress. When that happens abundance disappears. In other words, the only time available to switch from a monetary system to something else is while the system is still viable. It would be too late once it collapses.

    Now to the one thing I disagreed with 100%. Boycotting the military. First of all, if we did that, there would be a draft. Secondly, in today’s world, as it stands now, if the US. does not have a military, we won’t have a country for long. That’s just a reality.

    #66165

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    @deathbal wrote:

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    I would like to encourage you to watch the 3 Zeitgeist films I linked in the oil thread, I believe you’ll find them most informative and certainly very challenging especially if you’re thinking of working for that bunch of ****** *** ** ***** ** * **** **** ****!!!!!!!!!!

    I watched the second video and halfway through it I said, tell me something I don’t already know. But the second half had me surprisingly intrigued. For a capitalist pig such as myself, that says a lot. They talked about things I never even fathomed. But I have always been one to keep an open mind. Or at least I try to see an alternate POV whether I like it or not.

    Maybe the Venus Project could be tested on some remote island with a few hundred thousand people. But the key to that is abundance. Without it, it falls apart. It is a very interesting theory.

    I do see one problem however. I don’t think it will ever be done at a large scale. Because if our monetary system fails and the “poop” hits the fan, we will only regress, not progress. When that happens abundance disappears. In other words, the only time available to switch from a monetary system to something else is while the system is still viable. It would be too late once it collapses.

    Now to the one thing I disagreed with 100%. Boycotting the military. First of all, if we did that, there would be a draft. Secondly, in today’s world, as it stands now, if the US. does not have a military, we won’t have a country for long. That’s just a reality.

    Firstly, you may wish to split this off to a different topic or onto the oil thread Mr Bunny Wabbit.

    Glad you took the time to give it a watch and persevere db. The third one ‘Moving Forward’ is my preferred one for first timers to the series. The first is the worst as it starts off by getting anyone religious who can’t stand to have their religion challenged, to stop watching. Daft!

    I’m looking to promote the idea of building a farming tower in Africa as a proof of concept for the cultivation of food in the Venus way. My thinking is that they could do with food, there are plenty of people who would likely contribute their time and effort to building it, it’ll benefit a lot of people and there’s plenty of space to expand the experiment without the need to destroy existing infrastructure, plus there’s constantly money flowing in that direction to help the people trying to live there.

    The transition is going to be really hard, partly because money’s required to acquire the resources (materials and man hours) to get it started and prove that it can work and those with sufficient amounts of capital who could donate it are the kind of people that are opposed to such a system as they’re the greedy, selfish ones (to end up with such wealth).
    We now live in a world where we’re told it’s about looking after oneself and that mindset’s being promoted on a daily basis through the mass media. Trying to break that mindset’s infuriating hard to do and the more successful we are, the more likely it is that the revolution will be a bloody one.

    I don’t believe that such a project cannot be achieved without the monetary system so long as when the revolution comes a sufficient number of people share the same goals and have plans in place for how to achieve them. The natural resources will still exist, the technology will still have been invented, people will still be diverse in their skillsets and still have the same desires [security, sanctuary, access to essentials, enjoyment of life etc..], we’ll only have lost access to various facilities which will have to be prioritised to ensure people don’t all just turn on eachother.

    This was recently posted on the ZeitCoin thread which I thought was a good link
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp3OhC3NoMk&feature=youtu.be

    EDIT:
    Just had this linked in the thread too:
    AWESOME speech from Charlie Chaplin; The Great Dictator (with some modern imagery)

    #66166

    Deathbal
    Participant

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    Firstly, you may wish to split this off to a different topic or onto the oil thread Mr Bunny Wabbit.

    Glad you took the time to give it a watch and persevere db. The third one ‘Moving Forward’ is my preferred one for first timers to the series. The first is the worst as it starts off by getting anyone religious who can’t stand to have their religion challenged, to stop watching. Daft!

    First of all, I do not consider watching something that may be enlightening as persevering. I actually enjoy it if piques my interest. So I have started to watch the 3rd video.

    Let me first start off by stating that I am like my grandfather, an agnostic. Among an entire family steeped in religion he used to wait in the car as everyone else went to church. I remain agnostic despite marrying into another family that is very religious.

    That said, pointing out the folly of religion is counter productive to the goals of the Venus Project as I understand it. Christians in general do a lot of good for people around the world. It may not be enough, but their efforts are based on religion. Be careful to not set yourself back due to hatred of religion.

    Always remember that there are ultra rich powerful people that are also agnostic and atheist. They probably think that we only live once and want to make the best of it regardless of who they hurt in the process. after all, it doesn’t matter in the end anyway. We all die and are not judged. This is probably not the mindset you want to encourage.

    #66167

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    I said persevere because you’d implied it was rather boring for the first half as you were already aware of many/most of what was being said, but you stuck with it and were rewarded with some intriguing points 🙂

    Yes, that’s my point. Alienating a huge population of people by picking on religion from the outset is foolish, which I believe was recognised hence religion is left alone in the follow up films mostly. Not entirely because religion, like most institutions these days has become corrupt, selfish, greedy and defensive against anything that could be perceived as a challenge, which goes against the core fundamentals of most religions as I understand them (not well).

    Many of the uber rich justify their abundant wealth by claiming it’s for their family, to ensure a safe and secure future for them, so they should be onboard for improving the world as a whole in order to improve it for their future generations. Unfortunately this is not the case often enough as they’ve simply become greedy and competitive with those in their own class and oblivious to those of the lower classes believing us to simply be lazy/stupid whatever.

    This certainly is not a rule though, there are several powerful people who speak out about how bad the world’s become and do what they can to break the status quo and not just as a tax write off and publicity campaign 🙂

    And no, I am not a believer in the ends justifying the means when the end goal is equality and fairness.

    Saw this today, really liked it:

    #66168

    Deathbal
    Participant

    I am sure we have disagreements, but I am with you so far. The thing with me is, and that I have just now come to understand, is that I am against anything communist in nature. But only within the structure of a monetary system. What we see now is what we should have always expected within a capitalist society. It is greed driven, but I prefer it over a collectivist society using a monetary system. Am I making sense? The Venus Project as I understand it, upends that. It is a lofty goal, but preferable. And probably not in our lifetime.

    #66169

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    @deathbal wrote:

    I am sure we have disagreements, but I am with you so far. The thing with me is, and that I have just now come to understand, is that I am against anything communist in nature. But only within the structure of a monetary system. What we see now is what we should have always expected within a capitalist society. It is greed driven, but I prefer it over a collectivist society using a monetary system. Am I making sense? The Venus Project as I understand it, upends that. It is a lofty goal, but preferable. And probably not in our lifetime.

    Yes, that’s been the problem with the socialist regimes, the fact that money still existed and therefore there was the desire to have more as money is addictive.
    Whenever there’s the opportunity to be ‘better’ or ‘more powerful’ than another there will always be those that will aim to achieve that as it’s perceived as a competition.
    Competition in and of itself is good so long as others do not have to suffer because they’re not as good or just don’t wish to participate in the competition.

    The desire to be a better artist/musician/engineer would still exist in a Resource Based Economy, but those who are the best will (hopefully) simply be in more demand and gain the respect of more people without the less appreciated having to lose out on the essentials in life.

    Why should though have natural gifts live a better life than those who simply have to work harder? Why should there be ‘winners and losers’ in LIFE with the state of our technology?

    Capitalism had its time and did great for society but society has the ability to evolve beyond it, we just need to accept this.

    And just as a final point in this post, there are many who say people won’t work for free or some monetary gain. Well, I believe this game and forum are a great example of how that’s not true, I’m quite sure this all costs Gavin money rather than making him money, but he maintains it for the love of it. We all have interests and happily help others with things we care about all the time without needing a monetary incentive, just because it helps others and is enjoyable is incentive enough. 😀

    #66170

    Deathbal
    Participant

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    And just as a final point in this post, there are many who say people won’t work for free or some monetary gain. Well, I believe this game and forum are a great example of how that’s not true, I’m quite sure this all costs Gavin money rather than making him money, but he maintains it for the love of it. We all have interests and happily help others with things we care about all the time without needing a monetary incentive, just because it helps others and is enjoyable is incentive enough. 😀

    One last thing before I watch the rest of 3. Gavin is a rarity in today’s climate. I have always been a firm believer that if someone need not work, they won’t. But again, that only applies to a monetary system. You work for money to survive. If you can survive without money there is little motivation to work. If you take money out of the equation all bets are off. Now there is a different goal. One with a lot more reward and probably a lot less work.

    #66171

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    @deathbal wrote:

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    And just as a final point in this post, there are many who say people won’t work for free or some monetary gain. Well, I believe this game and forum are a great example of how that’s not true, I’m quite sure this all costs Gavin money rather than making him money, but he maintains it for the love of it. We all have interests and happily help others with things we care about all the time without needing a monetary incentive, just because it helps others and is enjoyable is incentive enough. 😀

    One last thing before I watch the rest of 3. Gavin is a rarity in today’s climate. I have always been a firm believer that if someone need not work, they won’t. But again, that only applies to a monetary system. You work for money to survive. If you can survive without money there is little motivation to work. If you take money out of the equation all bets are off. Now there is a different goal. One with a lot more reward and probably a lot less work.

    Yea, that’s really not accurate at all. Most people work without monetary incentive, yourself included.
    You were an admin here, you didn’t get paid anything for it, you got wound up at time, had to put time and effort in, that’s work!

    We all help others all the time whether it’s to help them move house, set up a computer, fill out tax returns whatever… we do it to help those around us.

    If we’re able to do something we enjoy doing and others benefit from it we’re happy to help. The restrictions come along if we have to lose money in order to help or we just don’t have the time (because we have to work to pay the bills).

    In a resource based economy, a small percentage of people would be needed to actually DO work, that small percentage would be easy to find, in fact, I believe people would have to be turned away or hours cut in order to allow everyone the chance to participate in the activities they’d to be a part of.

    #66172

    Deathbal
    Participant

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    Yea, that’s really not accurate at all. Most people work without monetary incentive, yourself included.
    You were an admin here, you didn’t get paid anything for it, you got wound up at time, had to put time and effort in, that’s work!

    We all help others all the time whether it’s to help them move house, set up a computer, fill out tax returns whatever… we do it to help those around us.

    You’re talking about volunteer work. Things people enjoy, believe in, want to help. I am not talking about that. Put it this way, if my job said to me, we’ll give you 80% pay to stay home or you can come to work for the rest, what do you think I am going to do? I am going to stay home.

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    In a resource based economy, a small percentage of people would be needed to actually DO work, that small percentage would be easy to find, in fact, I believe people would have to be turned away or hours cut in order to allow everyone the chance to participate in the activities they’d to be a part of.

    Absolutely. But it is basically the same thing, just a different incentive. A better one of course. You wouldn’t have an unemployment problem because the more the merrier. Just cut hours if need be, it won’t make any difference because priority is getting the job done. Technology and abundance would drive this.

    A good example is many many years ago people would spend most of the day toiling just to feed themselves. In many places today it is an afterthought. Take money away and the same would happen with jobs. Priority would be getting the job done, not how few people it takes working the maximum amount of hours.

    #66173

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    Your first contradicts your second :p

    @deathbal wrote:

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    Yea, that’s really not accurate at all. Most people work without monetary incentive, yourself included.
    You were an admin here, you didn’t get paid anything for it, you got wound up at time, had to put time and effort in, that’s work!

    We all help others all the time whether it’s to help them move house, set up a computer, fill out tax returns whatever… we do it to help those around us.

    You’re talking about volunteer work. Things people enjoy, believe in, want to help. I am not talking about that. Put it this way, if my job said to me, we’ll give you 80% pay to stay home or you can come to work for the rest, what do you think I am going to do? I am going to stay home.

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    In a resource based economy, a small percentage of people would be needed to actually DO work, that small percentage would be easy to find, in fact, I believe people would have to be turned away or hours cut in order to allow everyone the chance to participate in the activities they’d to be a part of.

    Absolutely. But it is basically the same thing, just a different incentive. A better one of course. You wouldn’t have an unemployment problem because the more the merrier. Just cut hours if need be, it won’t make any difference because priority is getting the job done. Technology and abundance would drive this.

    A good example is many many years ago people would spend most of the day toiling just to feed themselves. In many places today it is an afterthought. Take money away and the same would happen with jobs. Priority would be getting the job done, not how few people it takes working the maximum amount of hours.

Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.