This topic contains 18 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  BOY 3 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #7798

    BOY
    Participant

    So here is the proposed rig.

    He wants to do BF4, Titanfall etc…. He has picked out so far:

    CPU AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core $113.48
    Motherboard Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 Micro ATX AM3+ $49.29
    Memory GeIL EVO POTENZA 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 $64.99
    Storage Western Digital RE3 1TB 3.5″ 7200RPM $48.00
    Video Card Asus Radeon R7 260X 2GB $145.66
    Case Xion XON-560 MicroATX Mini Tower $29.99
    Power Supply Corsair 430W ATX12V $44.98
    Optical Drive Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer $14.99
    Operating System Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) $89.98
    Monitor Asus VS247H-P 23.6″ $146.98
    Keyboard Gigabyte Force K3 $19.99
    Mouse Cobra E-3lue Wired Optical $12.99

    http://pcpartpicker.com/user/gcha8e/saved/3V7p

    It is probably not worth it to explore Crossfire or blending GPU and APU graphics, as we need to keep this simple – it’s our first try. However, if I could be sure that the APU graphics really would enhance the GPU, I would try it. I’ve read about performance actually slowing down when some APU’s are working with GPU’s…..

    So with that said, the only concern I have is that there is not enough with the Graphics Card to drive BF4 very hard, or maybe not even as high as 20 FPS.

    I would like the GPU to get up to 192 bit instead of just 128, or 3Gb instead of just 2, but I just can’t find anything for a cheap price.

    I tried to get him to lowball the monitor, get a used one or something, but he would not go for it. I think he’s set on new stuff.

    #66122

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    >2GB Graphics ram is completely pointless for a weak ass card like that. The card will run out of horsepower WAY before it runs out of memory for the kind of resolutions you’ll be able to push.

    Yes, crossfire can be worse than single card performance but when the CPU/mobo combination is about the same price as APU/mobo, what’s the harm, just disable dual graphics if it happens.

    BF4 has Mantle support which takes the strain off the CPU and allows graphics cards to work more efficiently, the GPU on the APU can do that too and as heterogeneous computer advances more, the CPU & GPU on the APU will work really well with more applications without the need to play around with software thus allowing any graphics card to be used (opening the door to nVidia if they end better for whatever).

    But, whatever, your call.

    #66123

    BOY
    Participant

    actually it is his call, and he’s gunning to build this soon, but I’m going to hold him up so we can do this right.

    I was really hunting for a better mobo but I kept running into compatibility issues with the AM3+ socket….

    One of the issues is that he picked out a full sized case for $100 and then when I said he didn’t need a $100 dollar case, he picked out this little micro ATX. So we’re stuck with the micro mobos unless I make him upsize. for the price I think the full ATX mobos seemed to be better, not sure. I sure didn’t see many pcpartpicker builds made with micro ATX, most were mid size towers.

    What do you mean by mobo “horsepower” or was it just all around piece of trash?

    And would it be better to trim the system RAM down to 4GB of decent 2×2 to save some money here? If we upgrade the mobo, downgrade the CPU/APU, and downgrade RAM, will this give us something better to work with? I had hoped to balance it all out and get 8GB of RAM, but this is just such a tight budget. I nice brain teaser for me.

    Here’s a $$830 build a I made without his input (no monitor, mouse, keyboard) any better?:

    CPU AMD A4-6300 3.7GHz Dual-Core Combo or $59.99
    Motherboard ECS A85F2-A DELUXE(1.0) ATX FM2 $92.01
    Memory Patriot Viper 3 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Combo or $30.99
    Patriot Viper 3 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Combo or $30.99
    Storage Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5″ 7200RPM $59.98
    Video Card XFX Radeon HD 7870 2GB Combo or $205.66
    Case Raidmax ATX-298WY ATX Mid Tower $62.98
    Power Supply Rosewill 630W ATX12V / EPS12V $49.99
    Optical Drive Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer $19.98
    Operating System Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) $89.98
    Custom peripherals $150.00

    http://pcpartpicker.com/user/gcha8e/saved/3SCf

    #66124

    BOY
    Participant

    If I choose the GPU in the first post it looks like I save enough to get back in the budget.

    #66125

    BOY
    Participant

    for some reason i misread the post, I thought that you mean the motherboard “horsepower”.

    GPU… so you’re’ saying a 1 GB card is actually better for BF4 framerates if it has a faster clock?

    #66126

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    Think of graphics memory like car tyres and the graphics processor and the engine.

    Big tyres with a dinky engine overkill, there’s just no need for them.
    As the engine gets bigger, you need bigger tyres to control the power.

    Ideally you want pretty dinky tyres on the dinky engined car you’ve got going on.

    To get more.. computerish.

    Graphics memory is required to hold an image while it’s being processed by the GPU.
    The higher the resolution (and other things that aren’t appropriate here), the more memory is required to store the larger image (think file sizes when taking digital pictures, 1MP, 5MP, 10MP).

    However, the higher the resolution, the more work the GPU has to do to draw it.
    While it’s always possible to set a resolution that’s too great for the memory, the draw speed of the GPU is usually the limiter as the frame rate (draw speed) gets so low it turns into a slideshow rather than a smooth animation.

    With a weak GPU like you’re speccing, it’ll never be able to process an image large enough to require more than 2GB memory (the right amount) at a speed that would be acceptable.
    1GB would be too small especially when dual graphics is a possibility (60-90% improvement in speed).

    4GB system RAM would be sufficient, but 8 would be preferable. If you get a board with 4 memory slots you could get 2x2GB sticks and get another 2x2GB later for 8GB total.

    If you go APU, try to get 1866Mhz memory as the APU uses the system memory to store the images it’s working on an GPUs LOVE memory bandwidth. Don’t bother with >1866, the price/performance would be way out of the budget. 1600 would be okay if you it buys something significantly better.

    AM3+ mobos are old now and therefore haven’t evolved with the move to mATX and mITX that’s occurred recently. They’re missing many of the latest developments in fact.

    Give mITX and the Fractal Node 304 a look. Small is beautiful.

    #66127

    BOY
    Participant

    the first part makes sense, the computerish parts started to…..

    Why is 1GB too small? I can’t see any single frame being as large as a Gigabyte. It doesn’t hold just one single frame at a time does it?

    #66128

    ArmorWraith
    Participant

    60 fps or frames per second, rendered at an hd resolution can certainly achieve high memory requirements though. I would imagine your frames get determined by how many it can draw in the allotted time considered for smooth animation. Hope it helps.

    All the best,

    Armor

    #66129

    BOY
    Participant

    how about this card, any good?

    It’s pushing the budget limit…. $250.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133492

    #66130

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    Watching this now. Don’t KNOW what their findings will be, but it’s about your kind of budget and such

    #66131

    Chopper
    Participant

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    Think of graphics memory like car tyres and the graphics processor and the engine.

    Big tyres with a dinky engine overkill, there’s just no need for them.
    As the engine gets bigger, you need bigger tyres to control the power.

    Ideally you want pretty dinky tyres on the dinky engined car you’ve got going on.

    To get more.. computerish.

    Graphics memory is required to hold an image while it’s being processed by the GPU.
    The higher the resolution (and other things that aren’t appropriate here), the more memory is required to store the larger image (think file sizes when taking digital pictures, 1MP, 5MP, 10MP).

    However, the higher the resolution, the more work the GPU has to do to draw it.
    While it’s always possible to set a resolution that’s too great for the memory, the draw speed of the GPU is usually the limiter as the frame rate (draw speed) gets so low it turns into a slideshow rather than a smooth animation…….

    That’s probably one of the best explanations I’ve ever read on the subject.

    Guess another way is take a movie from a cd (what 640 mb?), go to 720 now its on a DVD (4.3 gb) then go 1080….now its dual layer or in a file 10 gb or more?….Takes a big engine and big tires.

    Hey PNut you get my pm?

    #66132

    BOY
    Participant

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    Watching this now. Don’t KNOW what their findings will be, but it’s about your kind of budget and such

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpGfA6g0-0Y

    Pretty good little channel he’s got there. He seems to be on my plane. He knows about the capabilities you’re talking about, and it seems that the problem is just that there is too much headache making good drivers and software that can utilize the new architecture. Makes sense.

    Did you take a look at the card I linked? Is it trash also?

    about the socket type. AM3 is old, but the AM3+ didn’t seem to be. there were a lot of boards on newegg with that type, but you have a point, I wasn’t able to find many options with PCI x16 I think. There were more FM2 sockets boards with x16 capability. Hmmm.

    #66133

    BOY
    Participant

    CPU AMD Athlon X4 760K 3.8GHz Quad-Core $84.74
    Motherboard MSI FM2-A75MA-E35 Micro ATX FM2 $57.78
    Memory Crucial Ballistix Sport XT 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 $69.99
    Storage Western Digital RE3 1TB 3.5″ 7200RPM $49.94
    Video Card Asus GeForce GTX 660 2GB $199.99
    Case Xion XON-560 MicroATX Mini Tower $29.99
    Power Supply Corsair 600W ATX12V $37.99
    Optical Drive Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer $14.99
    Operating System Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) $89.98
    Custom peripherals $150

    Total – $785

    #66134

    ArmorWraith
    Participant

    Nice, that looks a bit better.

    Armor

    #66135

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    hi. i’m way out of touch, but want to add two pennies to say that nvidia cards may not be best suited to amd boards.

    is an amd g card not an option? i think i saw peanut comment in another thread about AMD cards being pricey at the mo, but a 7870 looks to be about the same price and faster

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131563

    benchmarks are kind of meaningless for a few percent fps but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vk3hbAt4Es

    as i say i’m out of touch, but you generally find you get AMD tools for configuration on an AMD board, which are set up to include options for AMD graphics (overclocking, temperature monitoring, fan speed control – that sort of stuff)

    would something intel be outside of budget?

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