This topic contains 22 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  apache64d 11 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #4097

    apache64d
    Participant

    Due to recent events (that was seen by me and other admins) maybe its time to decide onece and for all what the beginners server is for.
    For beginners?
    For beginners and for pros that just want to have fun and help and they let beginners play?
    For pros that want to get the easy 20+- kills and the easy wins?
    Just last night I saw a player (who is ranked high enough in beginners to join the main) gets 27 kills and the others got almost nothing.

    I do know there are pro’s that just what to have fun once and a while and come to the beginners and don’t dominate the game. They also help the others. Thats great.

    I was thinking about making this poll beacause there is has to be a written rule for this. Once and for all. To prevent any misunderstooding.
    The beginners server was created by gaving for new players that comes to play this awsome game. To prevent from them the “big shock” of playing their first game on the main server and to let them work on their skills in order to prepare themself to the main server-the pros server.

    #26065

    jdog
    Participant

    While I haven’t had the time to get on to the severs, I think that the beginners sever should be a place for new players to learn how to play online and for the better players to go if theres no one to play on the main pro server.
    The pros should not be using the noob as target practic! Helping them yes, mopping the floor with them no.

    #26066

    sleestak
    Participant

    I suspect I am one of those recent events. Here’s what happened in a nutshell. After 5 rounds I had 1 kill. That one kill was achieved with a nuke to hit someone next to me, sort of as a joke overkill because we easily killed each other. My arsenal for the rest of the game consisted of baby missles and 5 small dirt bombs (thus far unused). No chutes.

    An unnamed admin — who refused to identify him/herself — told Janch and myself to move to Main. Knowing full well I was playing nice with the “noobs” I asked if I was being ordered to leave, because I know “pro” users are allowed to be on the beginner’s server. Over the next three rounds an admin “bot” lectured me. I say “bot” because he/she ignored what I was saying, the valid questions I was asking, and continued to drone on about how I needed to leave. I was even accussed of buying big weapons to bully noobs. Nevermind that “pro” users don’t often use big weapons, or that my bully purchases consisted on a single nuke.

    Quite a bit later, “Apache2006” connected and dismissed my concerns, going so far as to say I was never threatened with being kicked. I’m sorry, but when an admin picks a fight with you, ignores your questions over multiple rounds, and keeps harassing you, you are being threatened with a kick. Nevermind that I was playing nice.

    #26067

    apache64d
    Participant

    No one was threating u or kicked u or did something to u. None admin action was taken.

    #26068

    Tec
    Participant

    I love u apache.
    This post tells me why i am playing on the beginner server.
    There is no fun for me if an admin like u are on the server how wants to threating the other players with rules like u have to play on the main.
    I think u want too many rules for the game. Let the players play there game and dont regulate every possible situation with rules.
    Imagine u are on the mainserver and a player scores over 20 frags. Is this a “big shock” for u and u wouldnt play s3d anymore? No it isnt. Thats the same on a beginner. He dont leave the game cuz a player scores one time over 20+ frags and he have only one frag. He knows he is a beginner and the other player is mabye a “pro”.
    In any game you wont have it easy as noob, but with dedication you are getting better.

    PS Sorry for my bad english 😀

    #26069

    Brain Damage
    Participant

    Sorry apache but i don’t like the way you’re insisting on this question, i’ve been shut on ths question becasue i don’t like to get involved into this kind of problems, but now i think you’re really exeeding.
    here are few examples:

    1st:
    this poll can’t be serious and personally i won’t accept the result becasue it has been leaded in a non partial way, i’ll explain better. Asking “Who cares. Let the pros play. Let them get 20+- kills. Let them “abuse” noobs” or asking “Pro players should be forbideen to access it” is much different; while the concept is very similar; the first of the 2 phrases is much more politically involved, almost giving answer in the question by itself, this applies too all of the choices you gave.

    2nd:
    I don’t really think that you asked to all players that was playing in beginner’s server if the pro was helping them or simply like the word you sayed “abusing” (wich i don’t like becasue it’s not partial too),before taking any action (yes talking like an admin is even an action, becasue normal players can’t do it)

    3rd: who can you judge if someone is abusing the players? i know you made this poll to try to find a “written rule for this” (i know you’re refferring to beginner’s server access, to limit those “abuses”), well if you think that, there should be “written rules” even for admins. This is almost impossible because you’d need something like “laws”, not simply few rules, this also will lead the admin to act like “server’s police”, wich will completely ruin the fun, and will make it not a game but a virtual state.

    4th: after pointin the problem in a non partial way, you should lock the topic; i can’t see a poll in reality where people know what everyone voted, also everyone should vothe with it’s own experience, not based on what someone wrote something before.

    5th: even if you are an admin you can’t apply a rule that you stabilished by yourself (no overkills on the beginner’s)

    #26070

    BigBear
    Participant

    Oh boy, here we go again. I will agree that there are players who have a negative effect on the community because of they way they behave on the beginner server. I also think that there are players who stay almost exclusively on beginners for far too long for whatever reason.

    However, solving these problems by imposing prohibitive and/or ambiguos rules on every single member of the community is not a good idea IMO. I suspect this poll was introduced to eliminate eventual squabbeling among admins on actions taken towards individuals by referring to a rule voted for by the community.

    Are the poll options supposed to reflect how this ‘written rule’ would be formulated? If so, I might as well comment them:

    option1: This would be a very strict rule, ie once you reach the kill limit there is no more access to the beginner server for the player. This would have a very negative effect IMO since it’s very boring to hang around main hoping that someone perhaps will show up before you find something else to do with your time.

    option2: This rule would be ambiguos beyond belief. There is no way to quantify things like what constitutes a ‘dominant factor in the game’ or who is and who isn’t ‘helpful’ enough. It all comes down to which admin can voice their opinion the strongest since there are no written procedure for admins (a far as I know, in fact i’ve seen posts by admins stating this is not needed). I find it unlikely that such a scenario would be in anyone’s interest (perhaps except for single individuals).

    option3: No rule leaves things as they are now i suppose.

    I strongly disagree with the way these options have been presented, as they are clearly biased to reflect the authors opinion. Furthermore I certainly hope that this poll will not be used to decide if there should be a rule or not if only a small part of the community takes part in it (which is very likely since the opposite is unprecedented for every poll I’ve ever seen here).

    A final thought: If the idea is that the community is to be involed in deciding the specifics of rules and regulations, why not start by formulating a procedure for that first? If not, just make a rule and enforce it without referring to the will of the community.

    #26071

    apache64d
    Participant

    I get complains from beginners from time to time that why the “abuse”.
    We (the admins) from time to time do need to be the “police of the game”. It just the way it is. Sh*t happens.
    I see sometimes that 1 player is at the main.waiting..for some time and on the same time the beginners is almost full and at leasr half of the players there are pros….some times its even worse: the beginners is full and there are few pros in there and also 2-1 players is at the main. Forget the fact that there is no fun playing 1 on1 t, think about the other beginners that trying to connct the Beginners server and can’t cause its full. The pros are stuffing up the sever..
    Some pros almost never returns to the beginners cause they know they might shouldn’t be playing there because they have skills that too high for the Beginners server.
    OK I’ll remove the “abuse” term.

    #26072

    .–.ShoCkwaVe.–.
    Participant

    apache honestly..

    dont you think your power trip is getting a little out of hand?

    you may have admin rights but that does not mean you can control where players choose to play.

    I honestly think administrators should only use admin rights when its
    absolutely neccesary, and to confuse administrator with lead developer
    is being rediculous.

    bluntly put

    your not gavin, so stop making decisions or *thinking that you can*
    that would effect all players and gameplay.

    I hate to be rude to you, but this sorta decision should be best decided
    by the one who made the game.

    cheers.

    #26073

    Lawrence Reyome
    Participant

    I too was a victim of Janch’s “I want to blast the newbies” attitude last night on the beginners server, he blew me up twice with Nukes. I never even got a kill in last night, but I was killed plenty, so much so that I finally got disgusted with it all and left.

    #26074

    apache64d
    Participant

    Shock..
    Power trip?
    Did I do anything?
    The other admins are tierd a bit of dealing this.
    All I did is put a poll the will clear once and for all this whole thing.
    One of the reason I put that poll is because of what happened when pros come in and get bunch of kills and almost abuse begunners and makes them leave like u saw in the post the before this 1.
    There are cases that pros like janch do “abuse” new players and like in the case of Lawrence, the beginner leaves cause of the pros.

    apache.

    #26075

    .–.ShoCkwaVe.–.
    Participant

    if i am out of line by saying this then i apologise.

    I may not be aware and or kept up with recent events
    all I know is that I enjoy playing on the n00b server and welcoming
    & helping new players.

    this is very useful if you look at it another way.

    1) helping players get firmiliar with the game.
    how many times i have seen new players try and play yet they dont understand how to play and never adapt.

    many time the leading cause of them leaving and never playing again
    even though they where too lazy to read the help file incuded.

    2) I find that playing with n00bs is much more fun and lay back then
    the reg every1 out to kill me reg server. 😛

    3) sometimes when you help a n00b learn ..you make friends 🙂
    l8r when those friends become experienced useful players..
    they become allys and could be considered another useful tactic.

    n00b recruiting 😉

    4) sometimes there are no players on reg server and playing with bots online waiting for players passes the time.

    anyways whoever decides that reg players should only play on the reg server should think twice and evenly weigh all points of view.

    I mean no disrespect to you apache I am simply stating there are
    many reasons not to control where players can play asside from the fact that freedom to be able to choose where you want to play is every scorchers god given right.

    this is just an opinion, my opinion and yes you have every right to start your own poll.

    however, I just think the poll topic is slightly too controling and
    sensative to those all who like to play there n00b or not.

    not every1 goes there to blow away n00bs.
    infact i can recall quite a few times a few n00bs gave me a good Arse
    woOpin heh.

    what it all boils down to:

    if there are rude players on noobs then treat them the same as
    rude players on reg server kick,warn,ban them..

    but dont ruin the fun for every1 else because of a few complaints
    that’s just not fair.

    #26076

    apache64d
    Participant

    And thats y I voted the #2 ….

    #26077

    BOY
    Participant

    There are complaints on both sides and good points both ways.

    Lately, I think the Holiday season has reduced games at Main and led to the current lack of play there.

    I guess some of you seem to think that the server is still a good place for beginners to learn how to play and get some basic skills. Tthat is – or was – the main reason the server was started, as well as to free up some space on the crowded MAIN server. IMHO neither of these goals are being accomplished. THe BEGINNER server is now just an alternate place to play that just happens to be where you start out to get your 50 kills limit, while the MAIN server servers as more of a “preferred” players server.

    MY ADVICE FOR THE CURRENT SITUATION:
    eliminate the 50 kill limit altogether. Just have a Bots server and a no bots server.

    Here’s why:

    over the last 6 weeks almost 1,900 different players have showed up at the BEGINNER server, less than 10% have achieved 50 kills. Many of those players have already been playing for a while.

    Bottom line: why do we have a 50 kill limit, when the vast majority of players dont have enough fun to stick around and play for even more than half an hour?

    I have heard that some players like mandy are helpful to noobs, and i beleive this, but how many players like mandy do we have playing there?

    Unfortunately, not may noobs are here to say what they think.
    thank you to Lawrence for his comments…

    Lawrence Reyome Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject:

    I too was a victim of Janch’s “I want to blast the newbies” attitude last night on the beginners server, he blew me up twice with Nukes. I never even got a kill in last night, but I was killed plenty, so much so that I finally got disgusted with it all and left.

    how many more are there like Lawrence? Look at the stats, I think you will find that well most dont stick around for more than 15 minutes after they find out how long it takes them to get even one kill on the “beginner” server.

    Some of you may feel that its “their loss”, but I feel differently. I say it is also OUR loss that these players dont come back. I would like to see the Main server always full and I dont think it would be that hard to do.

    If the majority of people like how this has evolved, then thats fine, the folks who dont like the BEGINNER server just avoid it and the those that like it, dont. end of story.

    But I think there is a better way to do it. Removing the silly 50 kill limit would be a good start, without a max limit, why do we have a 50 kill minimum?

    #26078

    Cinnibar
    Participant

    Personally, I’m all for a kill cap on the newbie server after what I’ve seen on there. I’ve stopped in incognito a couple times to see players wiping out the newbies over and over and over again. It’s pretty pathetic.

    Frankly, if you have any skill, you should be on the mains playing the good players, not picking on the fresh meat that we want to mature and grow all nice and maggoty.

    Ok, that was a bad metaphor…

    But really, there are a couple of people that get their jollies picking on unskilled players. That drives newcomers away. Far better that they have a 100 or 150 kill limit and they graduate out to the big leagues and continue the learning.

    Newbies would have no trouble getting the 50-kill goal if there weren’t people abusing them in there. And THAT is the reason the pros shouldn’t play there… it stops newcomers from getting 50 kills against similarly skilled opponents. If you’ve got one or two pros there, a newbie would be lucky to get 2 or 3 kills.

    At one point, I was against the kill limit, now I’m strongly for it.

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