This topic contains 46 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Viking62 9 years ago.

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  • #53661

    Viking62
    Participant

    More to ponder over……
    Quote: About 2.75 percent of all home loans, or about 1.75 million mortgages, were in foreclosure at the end of June 2008, up from 2.47 percent in March. That was the highest foreclosure rate since 1979, when the Mortgage Bankers first collected the data. The number of loans that were past due by less than three months fell to 4.58 percent, from 4.72 percent, the first decline since the start of 2006. Foreclosure rates were highest in California, Florida, Michigan, Nevada and Ohio.

    Even more homeowners are losing homes due to recent hurricanes & flooding in the U.S. (this adds to the numbers above)
    Renters are also being evicted due to foreclosed properties!
    http://realestateinvesting.mixx.com/stories/2247850/renters_moving_out_due_to_foreclosures

    If I remember right–You go into foreclosure…..You usually file “Bankruptcy” -Under Chapter 7 or 13 in the U.S. .
    Therefore: You are denied credit for a term of 7-10 years (I speak from experience;a divorce had forced me to take that course back in the day).
    Back to my point: Of the million/millions that fall into this category-Any bailout does not include them…….. & to top this off….The unemployment lines in the U.S. just received 198,000 new people due to layoffs/business closings just from last month (per a Sept. 2008 fiscal report). Also, these people, whom most forgot to change their voting addresses (people that need to be heard)
    will not be able to vote!
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/opinion/05sun2.html
    All I can say is: Not all are at fault here–Be careful/have some empathy….Crap rolls downhill !! And most of us live in a valley 😉

    I am still waiting to see which presidential candidate will:Promise to…. (whatever a promise is worth nowadays).
    1) Bring businesses/jobs/Food Crops back to the U.S. (We shipped most out-of-country via NAFTA, etc.)
    2) Benefits for more than just the Middle Class (37k & up income class families). *The poor in the U.S. have been overlooked far too long!*
    3) Rescind the “War Powers” that Bush enacted & bring back at least some of our previous Constitutional rights (Many were trampled on through the institution of the “Patriot Act”.)
    4) Address real issues(instead of talking in circles around the issues at hand).
    Military/Government Quotes-“Nobody (soldiers) left behind”/”No child (education) left behind”……. How about… also…. “No American citizen left behind”?

    This is not only happening in the good ol’ U.S.A.–We all live in our own big pond(countries)….we have to watch & make sure the big fish(government) don’t eat up us little fish- 🙂

    #53662

    Deathbal
    Participant

    I am still waiting to see which presidential candidate will:Promise to…. (whatever a promise is worth nowadays).
    1) Bring businesses/jobs back to U.S. (We shipped most out-of-country/NAFTA, etc.)

    This is my main concern. Taxing big business does not bring them back, it encourages them to leave or cut back. Most people have to realize this. You decide which candidate is most likely to keep big business in the USA. What we need to do is lower taxes on them to cover the pay scale difference. But that is easier said than done.

    2) Benefits for more than just the Middle Class (37k & up income class families). *The poor in the U.S. have been overlooked far too long!*

    I’m not sure what you are looking for here? What benefits?

    3) Rescind the “War Powers” that Bush enacted & bring back at least some of our previous Constitutional rights (Many were trampled on through the institution of the “Patriot Act”.)

    This i will agree with partially. In no way should Bush have been given the right to go to war without a vote from the house.

    4) Address real issues(instead of talking in circles around the issues at hand).
    Military/Government Quotes-“Nobody (soldiers) left behind”/”No child (education) left behind”……. How about… also…. “No American citizen left behind”?

    Even though I disagree, McCain did just say he would use part of the bail out plan to buy up all of the bad loans and refinance them under their current value. That helps a lot of people that in my opinion do not deserve that luxury. But i’ll give him credit for being straight forward about it.

    #53664

    Viking62
    Participant

    Deathbal Quote-Even though I disagree, McCain did just say he would use part of the bail out plan to buy up all of the bad loans and refinance them under their current value. That helps a lot of people that in my opinion do not deserve that luxury. But i’ll give him credit for being straight forward about it.

    Viking answer-They “Say” whatever will get them votes…..Have you ever seen a politician get fired for twisting the truth a little to get votes? *McCain did just say he would use part of the bail out plan to buy up all of the bad loans and refinance them under their current value.*<— a)they have all lost value(I know-trying to sell a property now)…..
    b)Our government had once given property in the U.S. to our ancestors (May 20, 1862) mostly under a clause that stated-You work the land for a set period of time-then you owned it. The U.S. government saw fit to end that act in 1976 (I believe to make $$ off of the people in the U.S.(Opportunity was knocking again).
    See here for the story ➡ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Act

    It just does’nt sit well with me that our government has gained back control of something (Real property)that has belonged to us (We The People) for so long. We are seeing much more government control over our individual selves and inailiable rights than ever before.

    Just airing opinions….

    For the record also–I watched that debate on a FTA satellite….I got to see what happened after news media airing had stopped. (Not taking sides)…but, Obama extended his hand to Mccain after the debate….Mccain grabbed his wife (mrs Mc) & placed her in Obamas face for a handshake. Mccain lost me there….What an arse!! Right after that, the Mccains left the building………Obama & wife stayed and answered questions & mingled with the many people there for over a half hour.
    *What you see-Is not always what you get*

    Do not want to argue–Just don’t take all at face value

    Edited:
    Deathbal quote: Even though I disagree, McCain did just say he would use part of the bail out plan to buy up all of the bad loans and refinance them under their current value. That helps a lot of people that in my opinion do not deserve that luxury.


    –What luxury? Bad loan=the family lost the home/defaulted/bankruptcy….No getting the home back! They are without a owned home for at least 7 years.


    Gov’t will Refinance through buying the defaulted loan from the mortgage lender & selling to a new buyer; is more like what he meant. 😉
    They are politicians and Ex-Lawyers…. LOL

    #53665

    mooic
    Participant

    I thought this was going to be a Monty Python thread 🙁

    #53666

    Deathbal
    Participant

    –What luxury? Bad loan=the family lost the home/defaulted/bankruptcy….No getting the home back! They are without a owned home for at least 7 years.

    I’m sorry, but this is my opinion.

    If you sign on the dotted line and cannot pay, that’s on you. I don’t care if you were pursueded. First of all, the lenders should not be giving loans to those that cannot pay. Those that cannot pay should not look to the American people to then bail them out for their bad decisions.

    A lot of people chose to buy bigger houses with a 100% financing arm mortgage. That’s on them, they are taking the risk. I, and many other people were not ignorant enough to do that. So why should I now help bail them out? Did they not think the housing market would ever level out? At the pace they were going, my house would be worth over 800k now.

    If you buy a house for 400k and cannot pay for it, IT IS A LUXURY to be able to refinance that house for current market value. That is unheard of. If I bought an SUV 2 years ago, can I now refinance at current market value since gas prices went up?

    Sorry. I was and still am against any bail out for banks or people that made bad decisions. Socializing our country is not the answer. Rewarding or subsidizing bad behavior is a dangerous path. I am sad to say that the people of the United states are pretty ignorant overall. And it shows in the polls. Dunces.

    #53667

    Viking62
    Participant

    Thanks deathbal-Was a good brain workout debating with you 😛
    I do agree with the no bailout for the bad decisions and over extensions people pursued–Mostly to keep up with the Jones’ (ie:look cool image). I am not losing anything in this crisis-I own what I have-I learned my lesson long ago. I am just throwing some things out there for people to ponder (think about). Just because it is not happening to some of us….. does not mean that I will look the other way and ignore what I think is just & right. I watch the market & think to myself…. Self: so many were lulled into a false security & are now losing everything they have worked for (some,their whole life)-call it empathy….caring for a fellow human being….whatever…..
    It we be a long time picking up these pieces here in the U.S. ….. This was all forecast over and over. TV media and others made a “Refi”/lower rates look like free money…. almost every one I know fell for it & now instead of having a few years left to pay off their homes…… have 15-30 more years added of payments (You do not own it until it is payed for/they forgot that in Refi ads). But what the heck–>They bought some new clothes,a car,toys…outta the deal. The big lady is singin & the piper wants the money now…..
    May the choices in leadership we make now carry us forward to a better day tomorrow….. (A heartfelt) Good luck to all that are facing hard times.
    /Viking62

    *Ovo* I forgot 1 point….From an earllier post (Sry, I missed it)
    2) Benefits for more than just the Middle Class (37k & up income class families). *The poor in the U.S. have been overlooked far too long!*

    Deathbal quote-I’m not sure what you are looking for here? What benefits?

    Viking answer- Some sort of work,relief,aid for people like this……Hell, we still have homeless veterans from the Vietnam era not to mention Iraq veterans & the recent crisis at hand. I dont have an answer really…does anyone else?

    Our new Homeless 2008 ➡ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7585696.stm

    #53668

    BOY
    Participant

    I think I share Deathbal’s sentiments closely.

    Here are a few thoughts….

    I’m pretty sure the bailout bill is just exactly that, a bailout not a rescue, but at the end of the five years it is more than likely to be a HAND OUT. It’s mostly a bailout of the mega companies that did, in fact, trick low income people into thinking they could own a home. it isn’t hard to trick a dummy btw, but I am being mean, not all of them are dummies, just hopefulls. Hopefull people wishing for a good life, tired of the slums, bad landlords… and…. bad TVs. Huh, did I say bad TVs? I’ll get to that in a minute.

    Borrowers gambled on a few hundred Gs, and lenders gambled on a few hundred billion. Everone lost, that is abundantly clear. Well, I shouldn’t say everyone, at this point it looks like the real taxpayers have lost. We just ponied up for the wall street losers. But better than that, we taught them that monstrous stupidity never goes unrewarded. Here, start over, keep doing what you’re doing.

    OMG my neighbor has a 42″ plasma TV. (oh wait, getting ahead of myself again)

    It isn’t just gambling mind you, it is actually stealing in my book. Sharks on Wall street and Sharks in Washington are now one and the same. Who is this Paulson dude? Is he still in fact working for Goldman Sachs? Hmmm I wonder where he’ll work after Bush is out? “Experts”

    yeah, they experts tell us that the whole world will grind to a halt unless the companies are allowed to raid the treasury and keep on lending…. what? TVs. ?

    That’s right. TVs. Not only TVs. ipods, new cars, eat outs, new computers….. No matter what it is you want, uncle sam will subsidize it through a good old fannie mae home equity loan. So you don’t have a plasma TV – I think that should be the next right, the right to own a plasma TV. In fact, it should be provided by the governemnt free of charge to everyone! TV distribution in america clearly demonstrates racism. Care to guess the percentage of black homes to white homes that own one? WAKE UP AMERICA.

    Our politicians on both sides of the isle have both gone along with it. The Dummycans love the idea of course, more socialism and more handouts are more fair and therefore good. The Republicats are just afraid of what might happen and heavens we wouldn’t want thier stocks to go down!! OMG my stocks!!

    A word to the wise. No amount of handouts is going to bring you happiness or wealth. Remember the governments job is supposed to be to privde you the oportunity to pursue happiness, not give it to you. As long as you take handouts you’ll be a slave. I’m all in favor of givn’ folks a leg up, but lets get real.

    #53669

    Viking62
    Participant

    *smiles* Respect: Boy & Deathbal…. Nuthin but respect from me-Sure is nice to be able to think again-even though I may get a bit sidetracked with my rants 😉

    #53670

    Deathbal
    Participant

    I just bought a brand new 42′ LCD flat panel TV. aah the joy.

    Anyway, lets be realistic here. People are blaming wall street because it is convenient. Greedy people from wall street. Wall street did what they’ve always done, make money. We’re really not bailing them out. Many of them are walking away with millions. We are bailing out our economy. We are allowing wall street to continue.

    Instead of blaming them, blame the root cause and those responsible for it. Which is the CRA and all those like ACORN and any politician that promoted it. To blame wall street is like fixing a leak by getting a bigger bucket. Fix the leak, wall street is not going to get less greedy.

    And yes, Barack Obama worked with ACORN to push for loans to make housing more affordable for those that could not normally afford one.

    The path our government is taking now is a dangerous one. They are blaming everyone except the primary cause. Wall street, greedy lenders and the housing crash. Some are even questioning just how much the sub prime market effected this at all. This makes me think they aren’t even going to touch the CRA. They will try and regulate the market and subsidize our housing on the tax payers dollar. Basically putting the bigger bucket under the leak. [-X

    Yes, we have the right to the persuit of happiness, not the right to it. But don’t tell most americans that.

    #53671

    bazzz
    Participant

    There is more than enough blame for everyone, we all f`ed it up together.

    There is a panic, politicians doing things of wich they would 3 months ago rejected without a thought, if things get this crazy there is no other option than to do anything necessary to not let things get stuck, if there is no money nothing will happen.They dont have a choice, its messed up too bad to let things just run their course.

    Then we regulate and hope we remember what happened long enough to make the next crisis less severe.If someone thinks we dont need regulation, next couple of years that wont be a strong argument, the ones in power will have to.

    Maybe something good will come out of this, we may be forced to work together, i know for some this is blasphemy.In a crisis it may be better to cooperate than to grab any opportunity to blame the others.

    #53672

    Rommel
    Participant

    You thought it WAS going to be ???

    @mooic wrote:

    I thought this was going to be a Monty Python thread 🙁

    I’m not so sure that this won’t end up being better than War Noises.

    #53673

    bazzz
    Participant

    I’m not so sure that this won’t end up being better than War Noises.

    So you say there is a chance we will solve all this in an orderly manner, thank god there are some that see this in a positive way 😛

    #53663

    BOY
    Participant

    Notice that lately the markets are plumeting…. (I’m not proud of it, but I admit that it brings a sick smile to my face)

    Just acklowdging the problem and furthing said problem by claiming it is a crisis, what we now have is total pessimism and panic. It would have been so much better to simply let it all come out in the wash, ie. DO NOTHING. NO BILL.

    Of course though, both parties dipped thier hands in it, no one can wash thier hands. We’re sunk.

    The two party system is sunk. they put golden buckets under leaks. If it isn’t broken they try to regulate it and break it.

    I hate them all, I just might go libertarian if it wasn’t so pointless to do so.

    #53674

    Deathbal
    Participant

    @bazzz wrote:

    Then we regulate and hope we remember what happened long enough to make the next crisis less severe.If someone thinks we dont need regulation, next couple of years that wont be a strong argument, the ones in power will have to.

    No, this is where you are hopelessly wrong. We do not regulate. Regulation is what caused this in the first place. Lets not throw our hands up and point somewhere else. The CRA The “Community Reinvestment Act” is the reason for our problems today. So lets not go pointing in all different directions. The problem is the Democrats have their finger prints all over this. It has so far been kept somewhat quiet because of Bush. Bush is not popular so people don’t want to scream Democrat. The bottom line is the CRA is our problem. For those that do not know what it is, it can easily be found in any simple search. It is, for lack of a better term, a socialist program. Republicans do not do socialist programs. Remember? Republicans don’t care about little people? Republicans care about the overall economy, It is obvious the same cannot be said about Democrats when you consider the mental lightweight named Jimmy Carter, not only one of the worst US Presidents in history, but one of the worst world leaders that has ever led a country in the history of this world. That includes, Hitler. Jimmy Carter is still having a negative effect on our economy 30 years after he is out of office.

    Then late in the 90’s BJ Clinton refined the CRA to include massive sub prime loans. Following by Barack Obama and ACORN sued to make sure banks abided by the new REGULATIONS to allow loans to those that could not afford it. Loans to “promote” housing for lower income families. This is why we are in the crap we see today. NOT BECAUSE BUSH IS IN IRAQ! Here is the jist of it.

    In­ the­se­ l­awsu­its, AC­ORN­ m­ake­s a bog­u­s c­l­aim­ of Re­dl­in­in­g­ (de­n­yin­g­ p­oor p­e­op­l­e­ l­oan­s be­c­au­se­ of the­ir e­thn­ic­ he­ritag­e­). The­y p­rote­st an­d g­e­t the­ l­oc­al­ m­e­dia to raise­ a big­ stin­k. This stin­k m­e­an­s that the­ ban­k fac­e­s thou­san­ds of p­e­op­l­e­ c­l­osin­g­ the­ir ac­c­ou­n­ts an­d g­e­t l­oc­al­ p­ol­itic­ian­s to l­obby to stop­ the­ ban­k from­ doin­g­ som­e­ fu­tu­re­ bu­sin­e­ss, e­x­p­an­sion­s an­d m­e­rg­e­rs. If the­ ban­k g­oe­s to c­ou­rt, the­y wil­l­ win­, bu­t the­ dam­ag­e­ is al­re­ady don­e­ be­c­au­se­ who is g­oin­g­ to l­au­n­c­h a big­ c­am­p­aig­n­ to g­e­t the­ ban­k’s re­p­u­tation­ bac­k?

    This is not America. The above is a push by the Democrats, and make no mistake, it is the Democrats, to have tax payers pay for housing for the poor.

    I don’t care what race you are, how much money you have, or what country you live in or come from. If you cannot afford a house, no one should be giving you a loan. THAT IS WHY I AM AGAINST THE BAIL OUT! I’M NOT F’ING SANTA CLAUSE! Live in an apartment like peopel have been doing since the beginning of time.

    Look, I am sorry for ranting. But the idea is to NOT HAVE another crisis. Not hope it’s shorter on the tax payers dollar. But to abolish the CRA, the cause of the crisis. People are to blame for this. Find them, blame them, and vote them out.

    #53675

    bazzz
    Participant

    I dont think, based on economists who have predicted this long ago, you will hear a lot from them from now on, regulation has caused this.

    The system the banks have created was regulated, but too complex to understand properly.The regulators ,and the banks alike didnt fully understood the risks they were taking until it was too late.Too much business behind closed doors, evading regulation and taking risks that were too great.

    To get to this there have been many rounds of deregulating the banking system from 1970 on, if anything the deregulators dont seem to have the stronger arguments.To say CRA is the problem is a gross oversimplification,the whole system has failed and who are responsible for the system?But i`m not a economist, we will have to see how it plays out in the end.

    From what i can see is that people crap their pants, they dont tell they do but if you see the actions they are willing to take you cant conclude anything else.They know if the money flow stops everything stops, feel free to fill in everything, there is a reason why there seems to be comparisons to 1930.

    Has anyone noticed how most politicians dont seem to put the blame at the other side anymore? It takes something impressive to make that happen, its not a time to blame its a time to reduce the damage, they dont know how bad this will be and that uncertainty is enough to shake most of them out of their usual mode of behaving.

    But this is not a “mental resession”, altough our collective mental state has a lot to do with it there is a fundamental problem where there is no easy solution for.

    Right now we live in uncertainty,all of us ,this uncertainty is causing us to lose trust.Blaming worsen this, at a moment when we cant use it.

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