This topic contains 81 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Rommel 7 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #45208

    KTM Rider
    Participant

    I just read an interesting mini-article in an old Times at the library. According to it, Giuliani can’t win; because he is bald. Our last bald president was Eisenhower, and his competitor was also. Before that, the last bald president we had was Martin Van Buren in 1851. Before him…. Washington. Heh heh.

    #45209

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    people still use libraries? how quaint. : )

    @deathbal wrote:

    I am a jingoist at heart. I believe in many circumstances, that is the correct course of action.

    : ) all very philosophical. lots of labels. i’m more of a narcissistic outsider watching from a distance. : ) humans.

    @viking62 wrote:

    If you really check into past “Real” history….

    i read some of your article, viking. i stopped at: “his faith had been shaken by the Jesuits and he became an atheist”. the author seems to inflect a very biased ethical standpoint. : ) that’s a fast-track to the bullshit pile in my eyes.

    : ) dbal the jingoist. i’m sure i have a burning stars and stripes gif here somewhere. wish i was more organised.

    #45210

    KTM Rider
    Participant

    Heh, my library happens to also be a book store. And AI and I use it as a base of operations for tutoring school-age kids. Yeah, quaint….

    I had to google jingoist. Hadn’t ever heard that word before. Which is surprising.

    Burning the American Flag is perhaps one of the most powerful Anti-American icons. I’m quite sure you wouldn’t want to make that many enemies, Laptop.

    I disagree, DB, that our past actions “do not have anything to do with current decisions.” We made this mess, and it is our responsibility to clean it up. That is why most of the “I’ll bring all of our troops home!” campaigns disgust me. The candidates make those statements without studying the tactical situation, promising the American people something they might not be able to deliver (without dire consequences).

    A very interesting conversation you are sparking here, Rommel.

    #45211

    BigBear
    Participant

    Concerning the upcoming presidential election I am not nearly up to speed to make an insightful analysis. Besides, left and right by american standards are so far right of our most conservative representatives that it is hard for me to see any real difference from an outside perspective.

    I loved that question you posed there Rommel to the non US members about liberating the world. Such a colorful description. Even though my country most likely is way down at the bottom of the list of coutries that needs to be “liberated”, there mere thought of such insolence and arrogance strikes a flame in my heart. Sadly I fear that there are too many people in this world (I don’t mean just in the US if anyone thought so) that would justify such actions out of belief that their way is the just or right way and that it can/should be imposed on the world at all costs. On the bright side that will never happen, ie there is no “one ring to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them”. However, the pain and suffering it can/has/will create is a sad thing.

    I am all for freedom of religion on a personal level. However, even the thought of religion (I don’t care which one) or religious morality being incorporated into goverment decisions or the legal system makes me cringe.

    I had never heard of jingoism so I had to google it as well. This might be because it has no relevance whatsoever to a small country in the nordic region of Europe (Sweden btw if anyone was wondering). Unless it is on the wrong end of the bargain so to speak and currently I find the risk of that that happening rather small. The last time we were in a position to try and impose our will on other nations by rattling our sabres was early in the 18th century. My take on the concept is that just because you can that doesn’t make it right. That said I realize that it lies in human nature to take advantage of such a “tool”, but that doesn’t mean I like it any better from a moral standpoint.

    I am too lazy at the moment to get an exact qoute, but hasn’t it been said that those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it? That makes a whole lot of sense to me.

    #45212

    Rommel
    Participant

    Hi Big Bear:

    Knowing that you are in Sweden, I was hoping that you might relpy.@bigbear wrote:


    Even though my country most likely is way down at the bottom of the list of coutries that needs to be “liberated”, there mere thought of such insolence and arrogance strikes a flame in my heart. Sadly I fear that there are too many people in this world (I don’t mean just in the US if anyone thought so) that would justify such actions out of belief that their way is the just or right way and that it can/should be imposed on the world at all costs. On the bright side that will never happen, ie there is no “one ring to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them”. However, the pain and suffering it can/has/will create is a sad thing.

    I am too lazy at the moment to get an exact qoute, but hasn’t it been said that those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it? That makes a whole lot of sense to me.

    During the taxi ride from Stockholm to Västerås last summer I made the mistake of questioning the taxi driver about the current terrorist warning level. Knowing that you don’t have the problems we have here in the States and why, I thought I’d solicite the driver to help me make the point with my boss. As it turned out, it wasn’t a very good idea. 😕 Perhaps you could tell us about your countries current terrorist threat warning level. The taxi driver didn’t have a clue what I was talking about. 😉

    The point: Countries that mind their own business, like Sweden, don’t have a terrorist problem. You may be the biggest bully on the block but sooner or later the other kids are going to gang up on you and give you what you deserve. It is my sincere hope that we will abandon our quest for world dominance before that happens and instead concentrate on setting our own house in order. Why this idea gets me in so much trouble amazes me but I dont seem to learn from it and thus, am doomed to repeat it.

    This being a Holiday season for many of you here, I’ll close with:

    Peace and Good Will,

    Rommel

    #45213

    Chopper
    Participant

    “….those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it? That makes a whole lot of sense to me.” – BigBear

    You’re so right Bear.
    There was a reason our Founding Fathers has seperation of Church and State. The early Popes, Spanish Inquisition, and many others up to the Islamic “leaders” of todays world come to mind.

    Tolerance and freedom to live your life is not the strong suit of these types. Our Government was founded on keeping the Church out of our laws….so far its held up.

    btw it was George Santayana:
    ‘Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.’
    in 1905

    #45214

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    @KTM Rider wrote:

    There might be in-read peanuts.

    And that was before I started playing this game…. 🙂

    I have just sat and read through all the posts here (but some of the links I gave a miss to.

    Firstly a quick american bashing…
    The burning of the flag has always made me laugh, how a nation can consider itself powerful when every gets so emotional over a bit of fabric is beyond me, it stands for nothing, everyone has their own beliefs which you hold dear to yourself, the fabric does not hold them for you.

    Sorry, that one has always made me giggle and I just fancied getting flamed today.

    As the actual matters at hand.

    Military technology:
    Satalite imagery has to be far more advanced than we realise, the technology that we mere mortals see are usually about 3-4 generations behind what the military are actually using, so, yes I strongly believe that they can read the time off your watch, once they get the satalite into position which will take time (no pun intended), please bare in mind that the images on google are (now about 2 years behind) are scanned and published, there is proof of this on several images where bits of dust and insects are visable (magnified to larger than lorries).

    As for tracking and destroying ICBMs, it is quite easy, provided you have SAMs along the flight path as these missiles are pretty quick themselves, however, if their location is known, the flight path would be made to avoid them, hence all the secrecy about locations and capabilities.

    As for the war in Iraq, well, i kinna agreed with it, not for the WMD issue, but to get rid of an evil man. The reason its a kinna agree, is that its MY opinion he’s evil, and who am I to decide who should run a country I have no knowledge of, however it was foolish to believe they wouldnt put up a fight, who WOULD like other countries invading your own and pushing their beliefs onto you and changing your entire way of life, especially as the last time you stomped over and asked them to rise up with you, you left them to get slaughtered as traitors?

    Oh, and as for only having paper and not money, I’m not sure about the states, but in england it is printed ‘I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of: ……
    So it is possible for someone to walk into the bank of england and get your gold in exchange for some paper. your just better off with paper as handing over some gold in exchange for some chewing gum is likely to get you laughed at.

    #45215

    KTM Rider
    Participant

    Oh, sorry four the pun, Peanut.

    To me, the flag represents the original American Ideals, like the Cross does for Christians. An attack on the flag represents an attack on our morals, our laws, our customs, our beliefs, and a visual attack on Americans. It is doubly worse because they choose to not attack us directly (not that I’m saying I want them to), they instead attack our defenseless symbol of our Country.

    The Flag represents, not only what we stand for, but what we have accomplished. How would you like if after you have finished (or in the middle of) a massive project, and a person destroyed it. By burning the flag, our enemies divulge their intent to destroy what we have accomplished.

    Yep, I’m sick of trying to convince you guys of Satellite technology. You all seem to feel our government has to be secreting away years of advanced technology. The largest flaws in that reasoning are that:

    1) NASA is considered the largest technological leak in our nation. CIA produced a report to that effect, actually in the effort to divert some money. Satellites sort of have to rely NASA’s support to get positioned.

    2) Satellite tech is not something that only our intelligence agencies can use (I’m not implying that we want civilians spying, just that the technology isn’t only government/military based). Our Intelligence Agencies tend to rely on exterior individuals/companies for most of their technology. Heck, new stations are considered intelligence sources. There is an extremely small chance that CIA has a satellite that uses technology that is that dramatically better than every other world estimate.

    3) If CIA (NSA, FBI, any other 3 letter acronym) does indeed have such superior satellite technology, they would have to doctor every publicly available report, pictures, and video (pictures and video wouldn’t be that hard, but official reports..) that was ever released. Wouldn’t they also want to shout to the word of this power? Strike fear into the hearts of our enemies?

    There are also technological limitations. The satellite is hurtling around space at huge velocities. With all of the space debris, this buffets the camera. Obviously, correction technology exists (in civilian cameras), but this is still an issue. The other major issue is atmosphere. It’s like taking pictures through a fog. Combine that with locational debris, and getting a clear picture, let alone a detailed one becomes neigh impossible. Large populated areas tend to also have large amounts smog. Even slight breezes knock up large amounts of dust in Iraq. And then there is weather.

    Believe what you will. I will have no luck in changing the train of thought of conspiracy theorists. Oh, and the Google Maps aren’t up to date in every location. Generally only the major population centers.

    Destroying an ICBM isn’t “quite easy” with a normal SAM. But a SAM specifically set up to do so, yep.

    No doubt that Saddam was a cruel and sadistic man. I’m currently reading the book Terrorist Hunter by Anonymous (yes, anonymous). It is a story of an Iraqi woman who survived the political turmoil of the 6 Day War and ended up becoming an agent of the United States. Nonfiction, of course. The brutality of the Saddam regime is disturbing.

    But we destabilized the area by removing Saddam. If we pull out now, there is nothing to stop Iran or Syria from capturing all of Iraq for themselves. We hog-tied ourselves into longterm engagement in the middle East for years to come.

    Actually, I’ve just been reading a book about the history of money. Originally, our bills were actually “Silver Certificates” that held no legal tender statement. Instead they stated on the bill “This certifies that there is on Deposit in the Treasury of the United States of America One Dollar in Silver Payable to the Bearer on Demand.” You could actually go and exchange them for silver.

    But in the 1960’s, America switched over to Federal Reserve Notes that actually do not hold any true value. They’re Legal Tender only. This was supposedly to help our debt issues. We have $9,172,260,658,238.49 in debt as of 09 Dec 2007 at 11:24:36 AM GMT. Don’t think it worked….

    #45216

    BigBear
    Participant

    @KTM Rider wrote:

    To me, the flag represents the original American Ideals, like the Cross does for Christians. An attack on the flag represents an attack on our morals, our laws, our customs, our beliefs, and a visual attack on Americans. It is doubly worse because they choose to not attack us directly (not that I’m saying I want them to), they instead attack our defenseless symbol of our Country.

    The Flag represents, not only what we stand for, but what we have accomplished. How would you like if after you have finished (or in the middle of) a massive project, and a person destroyed it. By burning the flag, our enemies divulge their intent to destroy what we have accomplished.

    From what I could find, since 1971 flag burning is not a criminal act according to swedish law. This applies to the swedish as well as foreign flags. In some cases you can still be prosecuted if it could be considered destruction of property or endangering the safety of others though. The public opinion on this matters varies greatly as can be expected. Specifically I think it depends on who did it and for what reason. Personally I think it’s disrepectful but I don’t really care much. Wanna burn our flag, go ahead and see if I care. The funny thing is that it’s usually done to protest against some policy of or action done by the country in question. What I don’t get is how someone would expect that taking a swing at an entire nation and it’s populace in general (that is obviously the symbolism they are going for) would make anyone in that country become more sympathetic towards what they have to say. Unless offcourse the soul intention simply was to express hate towards that nation and everyone in it. If so then fine, one less xmas card to send. Lessens the pressure on me during a busy time of the year.

    #45217

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    Personally I’d burn your flags all over the place just to see the looks on your faces. Bunch of foreigners. : )

    @KTM Rider wrote:

    …the flag represents the original American Ideals, like the Cross does for Christians. An attack on the flag represents an attack on our morals, our laws, our customs, our beliefs, and a visual attack on Americans.

    Yes, exactly. Since we’re being open with our personal views, I see nothing in the US flag beyond corruption and inequality. And the widespread US focus on forced nationalism is just about the worst example. So, I’d burn it twice.

    Really is a shameful display of misplaced loyalty; ritual indoctrination into a communal way of thinking. All under the guise of enlightenment and evolved 21st century social ethics… : ( For shame.

    Anyway, ICBM interception. To be frank, it’s ridiculous, and I’m amazed you don’t see it. Either satellite/weapons intercept technology is decades ahead of the snippets revealed, or it’s nonsense. You can’t have it both ways.

    Hate propaganda : )

    edit: starting to wonder how many of these posts were alcohol fuelled. i should probably read some of my old crap and make some edits.

    #45218

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    Wow, that debris must be extremely picky about which satalitee it bangs into, the GPS sat network has been pretty reliable for, well, a FEW years and thats specific to less than an inch.
    as for a few other other factors you mentioned, when zooming to such a degree, all else is invisable, hence the only planes visable on google earth are either taking off or landing. I am not sure on the density of cloud cover it can penetrate, but I know that some cloud cover doesnt cause a great deal of problem.

    Oh, and since when was it the American satalites I was talking about, you may be naieve enough to believe what you are told, but personally, I WANT my governement to keep some secrets, i dont want to know that I am being watched 24/7 by various means, but I like to know that people are being watched.

    As I said to BB about his posting the whispering, we all know that nothing is private in this world, especially on the web, however, we do not like to be ‘reminded’ of it!

    As for pulling out of Iraq… as long as their is oil in them there hills there will be Americans and British soldiers making sure that the rest of the middle east does not get its already oily hands on it, we all know that the reason for going and pretty much the main reason for staying, no matter people would like to be the true reason, or what the politians say.

    #45219

    richie
    Participant

    Errr… I think you have all lost your way….

    Hell yeah Clarkson for PM!!!!

    How did this ever get on to Bush???

    Humm… If Clarkson was PM what would the world be like….

    #45220

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    @richie wrote:

    Errr… I think you have all lost your way….

    Hell yeah Clarkson for PM!!!!

    How did this ever get on to Bush???

    Humm… If Clarkson was PM what would the world be like….

    more car friendly..

    #45221

    DireWolf
    Participant

    @richie wrote:

    Errr… I think you have all lost your way….

    Hell yeah Clarkson for PM!!!!

    How did this ever get on to Bush???

    Humm… If Clarkson was PM what would the world be like….

    Did’nt you know?????? 😯
    everything in this world that goes wrong is Bush’s fault…….. duh!
    it seems that is the popular way of handling things lately, Blame Bush, I dont support him, or hate him, he has made many mistakes and as said earlier, now we have to pick up the mess, there are many evil people out there that are being overshadowed by Bush haters, Bush has been like an umbrella for them, while all the focus is on Bush, others are building strength and planning death, and not being noticed because of the almighty evil Bush and the evil US way of life seems to get all the spotlight, I mean c’mon, Bush has been accused of going into Iraq for oil, blowing up the twin towers, sending a missle into the Pentagon while claiming it was an airplane, dont forget hurricane Catrina, how he flooded all those poor people, and there are many others, People everywhere need to focus on whats really happening around them and quit trying to blame him for all the worlds problems, yea he screwed up, but while all the focus is on Bush, you are not seeing the whole picture, and it is not pretty.

    #45222

    BigBear
    Participant

    Although Bush gets a lot of crap, I seriously doubt that the world is blind to other problem sources. However, considering that the US takes such an active/aggressive stance on the world arena it’s not so strange that its leader becomes a focus point more than most.

    As for wars in general I tend to have a rather cynical view on why they get started. I don’t care how much it is sugarcoated with words about protecting ideals or fighting evil. It seems to me that every war I can think of reading about were started over political, territorial and/or financial reasons beneath the surface of propaganda used to fuel the the masses cries for blood.

    @richie wrote:

    Humm… If Clarkson was PM what would the world be like….

    One step closer towards ppls utter contempt and disbelief in politicians ability to steer the world (or even their own country for that matter) towards being a better place? A soap opera where the shallow surface is everything and ability and intentions mean nothing? As a joke it’s quite funny though. 😉

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