This topic contains 81 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Rommel 7 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #45193

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    @KTM Rider wrote:

    If you really want to see the detail level of our spy photo’s, here is a link to a couple of them released by the UN. They should give you a good idea. http://www.museumofconceptualart.com/un_proof/index.html

    : ) excellent.

    seriously though, it would be crazy for any country to reveal the cutting edge stuff. national security and all that. if the iraq thing (plus afghanistan, serbia, sudan are their others? (i lose track)) was/is really as one sided as we’re meant to believe, the US aren’t gonna tip their hand over it.

    yeap. all a bit worrying. two sides to every story though.

    some interesting insight.

    ps:
    if you can believe what you read on the internet, the military had 2cm resolution satellites 20 years ago. (not that i’d know one if it fell on me).

    #45194

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    #45195

    KTM Rider
    Participant

    Yeah, national security does dictate that satellite technology is kept secret. But our senators and congressmen (and women) can’t keep their mouthes shut. The other issue is that we share much of the technology with other countries. Israel’s satellites are based off of ours, for instance. And every time another individual is brought into a secret, the risk of exposure squares.

    If NATO brought their full force down upon a situation, there isn’t anything that could stand it. But with the involvement of our politicians and media (and therefor the public), every decision (simple in military standards) all of a sudden must be debated, and an air of morality must be applied (I’m not saying the latter is bad, it just slows the process). Our military might is basically hog-tied.

    Heh, that was ironically funny. I wonder what regional statistics are in those terms……lol

    #45196

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    @KTM Rider wrote:

    Tracking an ICBM isn’t nearly as hard as it appears. ICBMs aren’t an aerodynamic design made for flight….

    i had to double check the numbers.

    propaganda. despite what they’d have us believe, there’s nothing conventional that can intercept an intercontinental mirv. (or any missile, even a scud).

    you know how fast those things fly? something like 25 times the speed of sound. (that’s like, mexico to canada in 5 mins flat).

    i really hate to scaremonger, but if it ever happens, we won’t know about it.

    #45197

    KTM Rider
    Participant

    i really hate to scaremonger, but if it ever happens, we won’t know about it.

    Strange, ICBM tracking technology has been around since 1961. Russia built their Don-2N radar in 1970 and has kept it updated constantly. NATO tracks ICBM’s by an infrared satellite system and a number of high frequency radars (located across the globe). There has never been a question about detecting and tracking ICBMs (well, maybe back in the 50’s).

    The speed of an ICBM is relative to their stage. Boost (acceleration) Phase intercept is by far the easiest, but you have to be right on top of the launch. Cruise Phase was found to be vulnerable (as long as we don’t target decoys) especially to relative platform launchers (in this case a highly modified 747 using hydrogen fluoride lasing and a modified intercept missile which I cannot get specifications on).

    But the highest probability of intercept comes from a multi-tiered defense. First tier response is THAAD (Theater High Altitude Area Defense), which intercepts the ICBM before it hits Terminal. If Theater Missile Defense-Ground Based Radar (TMD-GBR) detects still incoming missiles, it engages the Patriot PAC-3 (a modified Patriot in constant -in theater- development since 1991), and the Navy Area Defense (NAD) systems.

    For the actual kill, much of our technology relies on Kinetic-Kill warheads, but EMP weaponry is being phased in to the intercept system. We still do have our Sentinel-type kill systems (that uses a nuclear burst to intercept, which obliterates, EMP’s it, and, worst-case, knocks it off course), but the political ramifications of using these is rather…… strong…..

    There was also a joint effort between the US and Israel to develop a SCUD (and later larger missiles) intercept system named Arrow. The Israelis are using it now. While they haven’t tested it in war, tests show it to be about 94% successful. Actually, the system was featured on a couple of History/Discovery channel shows awhile ago. The only real reason we are not rearming with the Arrow is political and logistical. Lockheed (the developers of Patriot) have influential lobbyists, and the cost to rearm is enormous.

    The low intercept numbers (some doom-sayers like to contemplate how many people will be killed with an intercept level of say, 96%) are also somewhat flawed. That is still based on a M.A.D. philosophy in war with the USSR, where-in they launch over 8000 MIRV’s at us. The biggest threat right now is much smaller scale. Even in a worst-case scenario, war with China, intercepting their estimated 20 ICBMs (with 20 warheads each) is child’s play.

    At a minimum, consider this: The Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty of 1972 made the anti-BMD point of view official by forbidding the Soviet Union or United States to deploy extensive missile defenses. Each superpower was allowed by the original treaty to build ABM installations at two “widely separated” locations, each with at most 100 interceptor missiles. In 1974, a protocol was added to the ABM Treaty that reduced the number of permitted installations to one per nation. The US with drew from the Anti Ballistic Missile Treaty in 2002.

    #45198

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    : ) all sounds very technical. ok, tracking maybe possible. in the “hey sir, what’s this? that a meteo… shit… boom” sense.
    (i doubt it personally).

    i’m no expert. i’d very much like to believe we could intercept a modern nuke.

    it can be very difficult to filter the misinformation. there are just as many experts who would tell you the intercept percentage for the latest patriot missiles, is more like 4% against a 1960’s v2 rocket. (if it’s detected early enough).

    given the nature of the issue, it’d be silly to take anything at face value. from my experience, when something doesn’t sound right, it usually isn’t.

    #45199

    The AI
    Participant

    I agree about the face value part. For instance, they all tell me the Ultrasonics are not out to get me, but I know that they are. A UPS truck on a Friday? the same day as another truck comes to my house? A coincidence? I think not.

    Then the foot steps, you can’t tell me those are squirrels. The pattern is wrong, they are robot squirrels, they are stalking me, that is why the cat hasn’t killed it, it has a sonic pistol in its tail.

    Tracking a ICBM? easy, they would most likely re-aim it at me, I know where they are hiding.

    This ISP won’t stay hidden for long, if they ask, I wasn’t here.

    Just wanted to point at how this looks from here, it is all valid, just quite funny, but that was a robot squirrel, I swear.

    #45200

    Rommel
    Participant

    Open Letter to All:

    I just found this post and saw that it contains some items that I must in good conscience contend. Nothing against you Deathbal, and I hope you don’t consider this a personal attack. It was just that your prediction of a win by rudy got my attention and inspired this post. Hopefully anyone that replies to this will try and maintain some control. I love my country, I love the Constitution, but I don’t love what we are getting, and it’s getting worse. If you must flame me in order to make a reply, then by all means, let the flames begin.:P
    @deathbal wrote:

    Most of us know he did have WMD. He’s used them in the past. I do not think the concern was whether or not Iraq would attack the USA. After 9/11, the concern was whether or not Saddam would supply those that could attack us.

    You forgot to mention that the chemical weapons that President Hussein used on the Kurds and the Irainians were supplied by our dear old Uncle Sammy and were used with his full knowledge, encouragment and support. Good old Unlce Sammy, he made his living as a buthcher. Seems to be a fitting icon for our country considering our germ warfare on the American Indian (measles and small pox), enslavemnet of Africans, nuclear attacks on two heavily populated Japanese cities while the Japanese were trying to negotiate an acceptable surrender, and numerous atrocities in our recent history which include the indisputable Tuskegee Experiment and the injection of Plutonium into unsuspecting pregnant women at Vanderbilt University during the 1950s.@deathbal wrote:

    Now as KTM mentioned before, Bush did not think this through. From his various speeches of the past, and some of our governmental decisions, it is easy to see that much of what has happened in Iraq thus far has been unforseen. Lets also not forget that Bush didn’t just point his finger and say, lets go.

    We were on the way to Iraq from the day georgie boy was sworn in and with such an adundance of fools in our country, the band wagon was soon full of people waving flags and praying to God for a swift victory. I wasn’t one of them and in fact, I lost some very lucrative jobs by trying to educate my co-workers. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. If I had it to do over, would I? It’s hard to say. I’d like to think I would but to the best of my knowledge I accomplished nothing and I doubt that I will accomplish anything here. I’ve spoken to some of them recently, and now, they refuse to discuss it. Wallow in ignorance if it helps you sleep at night, wave the flag and don’t forget to pray for God to kill all of their children and bring a pox on all of their houses. But if just one of you takes the time to look at the facts, and decides to speak up, then I have accomplished something.@deathbal wrote:

    These members of the Senate and Congress that voted for this war cannot cry now.

    The Senate is a member of the Congress. I think you meant the Senate and the House of Representatives. I see this mistake being made quite often and I suspect it reflects poorly on our Federally funded educational system and the teaching that children receive at home.
    @deathbal wrote:

    Saying Bush tricked us,. Bush misled us. They are big boys and girls, people vote them in for a reason.

    The reason that people vote for people that constantly undermine our way of life is because the deck is stacked with candidates supported by the machine. A good example is: Giuliani -vs- Clinton. Seems funny that the race has already been decided to me, but the machine usually gets what the machine wants. Seldom do the people get what they need. “Let them eat cake!”@deathbal wrote:

    They are expected to know what they are doing. They need to take responsibility for their votes.

    It should also be noted that none of them voted for a war. They voted to give the president the war making authority. Each and every one of them that voted to turn over the war power to the president violated their oath of office and violated the Constitution of The United States. ( See Article I Section 8 ).@deathbal wrote:

    As far as Hillary…..Giuliani will defeat Hillary. He will probably be our next President. The only way Hillary can beat him is if the conservatives of the USA decide Giuliani is not conservative enough and vote 3rd party or not at all. That would be a massive mistake. You can’t always get what you want. Sometimes you have to comprimise to get what you need hehehehe……wonder if anyone got that.

    BTW, excellent posts KTM. I find myself agreeing with you on 95% of what you say.

    I think you jumped the gun with your prediction Deathbal. It now appears that the only person Rudi is likely to defeat is himself. 😆 If you value the Constitution there is only one candidate, that has voted consistently to support and uphold it and his name is Ron Paul. If you are so inclined, you can educate yourself about him and, more importanly, his voting record at RonPaul2008.com. For those that find solace in praying to God for a swift victory in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, North Korea, Seria, Lebanon, Venezuela, Cuba, ad infinitum, the following link is to Mark Twain’s War Prayer. The War Prayer. I hope that you will all try and educate yourselves, no matter where you live, but I fear that many of you have not been provided with the stuff it takes to really care.

    This being an International Community, I welcome replies from people from other countries. Please don’t be shy. Is the America you’ve seen lately the America you want to rule the world? Should we invade and liberate your country next? Yeah, we’ll kill some children and old people, we call that collateral damage, no big deal. Yeah, our soldiers will rape and kill some totally innocent young girls and their families but they are under a lot of stress, let them have some fun. We may have to water board you and your wife too, but hey, if we kill you, we can bring you back most of the time and start over again. By the way, IT IS torure if you do it to us, so don’t go getting any ideas. You don’t want to see the things we do when we really get angry. We are the soldiers of God Almighty and we do his bidding at the direction of a select few without question or concern for you or yours.

    You have to sing this really loud and with gusto! That’s the way I was taught.

    Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war,
    with the cross of Jesus going on before.
    Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe;
    forward into battle see his banners go!

    Maybe we should waterboard george, dick and the rest and make them spill the beans. I suspect that they know the real terrorists and know them very intimately. We can always say it’s for National Security.

    You decide,

    Rommel

    #45201

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    direct as always, rommel. i believe it’s naïve to expect your influence to match your intention. : ) all guns blazing.

    i too have a distaste for face value united states ethos, but things are rarely so clear cut.

    : ) flaming

    #45202

    KTM Rider
    Participant

    Wow, Rommel. You read through all of our random arguments? That takes stamina!

    In terms of the modern politics (Clinton, Giuliani, etc), the political climate has evolved since DB’s post. It’s always easier to critique in retrospect.

    At the time, arming the native people against the Soviet threat seemed to be a good idea. We were running out of soldiers, Intel, and PR. Now, we should have learned out lesson. Any individual who is our ally now, can become an enemy in an instant; especially if they aren’t under our direct positive influence. What disturbs me most is that (According to NBC last night), we are considering arming the Afgani people to fight the Taliban. The Taliban were founded on supplies from the US. Why the Bloody Heck would we make the same mistake again with the same people?

    The Japanese weren’t attempting to negotiate a surrender when we dropped the bomb. The Japanese people wanted to, but the government (specifically the fleet) continued their violent actions.

    I agree that we were doomed to go to war the minute W Bush was elected. I’ve never agreed with the idea of allowing multiple generations from the same family into office. The situation in Iraq was escalating, but Intelligence reports viewed that the situation would deteriorate further if Saddam was removed. Bush has this wonderful tactic (as shown with the current issue of Iran’s Nuclear capabilities and the President’s knowledge of it) to simply ignore intelligence information, and therefor eliminate it’s ability to influence the actions he wants to accomplish. He also tied Iraq to 9/11 nicely, which tied not supporting the war as unpatriotic.

    By Congress relinquishing their power to declare war to the president, they unbalanced the already tipsy distribution of authority. The original idea of the Constitution pertaining to the Three Branches was to divide the power. Specifically, to remove the power of declaring war from the Executive Branch’s hands. Congress committed a fatal error in their actions.

    Heh, no flame here.

    #45203

    Viking62
    Participant

    It is really sad how much most all of our governments fail to teach us about our true past histories. Also,it is really sad how much we listen to our governments propaganda when most of it is to serve the governments themselves and not the people of their respective nations at all. Power,Money & Greed still drives governments to do what they do. I am a Christian myself & of true Viking descent even though my family immigrated to the U.S. a few generations ago. Things to ponder: Columbus was stated as founding North America (He was just well known at that time & credited with it from some queen for the control factor)…….Everyone should know by now that Vikings did get here 1st….China is also claiming….they beat the vikings (They have history records past most civilizations now in existence). Also, some Roman Ruler dude named Constantine enacted the Christian faith at some point in history (Mixing together Pagen & christ followers traditions to make it acceptable to more of the present time peoples) & to really top all that off…Constantines Birthday was December 25th……..Hence why my family has always celebrated christmas on the eve before the 25th of december.
    Another small ditty: Iran was once the world dominating force known as Persia……….& Iraq is the place where the original Babylon is…..It is rumored that Saddam was rebuilding it & had his name on most of the stones used in the rebuilding of it. You have to dig deep to find the real truth in anything anymore…It has been buried for reasons beyond most of our comprehension. You ever wonder why we all are in debt to our governments/Banks in one way or another? They make coins out of non precious metals & print money out of thin air(paper & ink) & make us trade those between ourselves–In the meanwhile…..They control “Real” wealth…Gold,Silver,Oil & even your property & you (fake land titles)—then we sit her & argue about meanial things that have been thrown in our faces to cause dissention between us & then the governments tighten there grip on us while we are all arguing. Heck, our governments teach us who to hate (Wars) & cause most of the racism even between us. Us, as human beings are supposed to search out the truth….Not let a fake truth be fed to us. It is about time we all woke up & realized that we can control our destinies & quit allowing our governments to direct our lives. At least, this was the fundamental reasoning behind the U.S. Constitution-Btw, we are supposed to be a Republic….not a Democracy(Communistic/dictatorship power)……The governments are scaring us into giving up all our freedoms in the name of Terrorism. *Look some of this up* North American Union-Nafta/can-mex superhighway-http://www.nmcservices.net/strawman.html
    I don’t believe all I see—Just what makes good sense 😉

    #45204

    Rommel
    Participant

    OH NO !!!
    @viking62 wrote:

    The governments are scaring us into giving up all our freedoms in the name of Terrorism. *Look some of this up* North American Union-Nafta/can-mex superhighway-http://www.nmcservices.net/strawman.html
    I don’t believe all I see—Just what makes good sense 😉

    Terrorism? Are you sure? I don’t hear as well as I once did. All this time I thought they were saying we had to give up our freedoms because of Tourism. The super road to join Canada and Mexico isn’t for tourism? Hmmmm, I’ll have to look into this as well. 😉

    BTW, very good replies so far. I’m very interested in thoughts from other countries although I suspect that the United States of America isn’t currenltly seen as a shining beacon for the rest of the world.

    If you followed the link and read the War Prayer for the first time, I hope that you enjoyed it. It’s one of my favorites.

    May health and happiness be with you always,

    Rommel

    #45205

    Viking62
    Participant

    BTW, very good replies so far. I’m very interested in thoughts from other countries although I suspect that the United States of America isn’t currenltly seen as a shining beacon for the rest of the world.

    If you followed the link and read the War Prayer for the first time, I hope that you enjoyed it. It’s one of my favorites.

    May health and happiness be with you always,

    Rommel[/quote]

    If you really check into past “Real” history. Life is not really what it seems…and the good ol’ U.S. of A. is not the only power in the world rocking the reality boat 😉 More food for thought here ➡
    http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2005/08aug/redshield.html

    #45206

    Rommel
    Participant

    I followed the link you left and read the entire article.@viking62 wrote:

    @rommel wrote:

    BTW, very good replies so far. I’m very interested in thoughts from other countries although I suspect that the United States of America isn’t currenltly seen as a shining beacon for the rest of the world.

    If you followed the link and read the War Prayer for the first time, I hope that you enjoyed it. It’s one of my favorites.

    May health and happiness be with you always,

    Rommel

    If you really check into past “Real” history. Life is not really what it seems…and the good ol’ U.S. of A. is not the only power in the world rocking the reality boat 😉 More food for thought here ➡
    http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2005/08aug/redshield.html

    Although I’m a sceptic by nature, the artice appears to provide a perverse logic for actions that can only otherwise be deemed illogical. It also seems to be documented sufficiently to at least warrant further study.

    “That’s all I have to say about that.” – Forrest Gump

    Run Rommel, RUN !!! 😉

    Rommel

    #45207

    Deathbal
    Participant

    Rommel, in case I haven’t said this in the past, i’ll say it again so you know where I’m coming from. I am a jingoist at heart. I believe in many circumstances, that is the correct course of action.

    As far as Ron Paul goes……Where does he stand on taxes, illegal immigration and national security? I do not at the moment have time to read his link, but I will. I’m also a realist. If he stands no chance of winning, I will not vote for him. I’d like my brother in law to be President, but I would not waste my vote on him.

    As far as the US giving Saddam weapons………that and our past does not have anything to do with current decisions. Even if we’ve caused all of these problems, it’s not an excuse to do nothing. People bring up what you brought up. They also bring up our support for Osama against Russia. What do they have to do with our decisions now?

    I still think Rudy Giuliani will be the next President of the United States. I really don’t care who it is as long as it’s not one of the Democratic front runners.

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