May 18, 2007 at 9:17 pm #5533
In the original game, fuel was not a sort of “weapon” as we have it here, we could move and then fire.
I would like to have this possibility here.
It should look like this: you activate fuel, selecting the destination point, then you enter the parameters of your shot, as usual.
Then, tank starts moving, and on reaching the final point, it performs the shot.
I dont think this thing will give too much advantage to fuel-users. Because the darkside is the risk of self kill.
First, one should have enough skill to set the parameters of further shot.
We have three things:
First, we all know, movement sometimes breaks, because of rough landscape. So then you shoot not from the point you intended!
You can miss (well, there are some players whose skills are so poor that it rather makes them hit). And sometimes it can be suicide.
Second, sometimes movement breaks, because there is no land to move on 🙂 Other people’s shots modify the landscape – you still on the move while others are firing their weapon! If you in the hole… and using napalms, rollers, or heavy weapon. It often can be suicide. Or being lucky, you simply miss.
Third, you can be affected by others shot so don’t have enough power. Also, it often can result in suicide.
And, finally, you can simply be killed before you shoot.May 18, 2007 at 9:20 pm #42294
btw, a sort of bug report:
I’ve seen many times such thing in the game, when tank starts moving, for example, on the edge of flat mountain top, but someone’s shot destroys ground beneath, it falls on parachute, but then appears on the top of the mountain countinuing its way!
In my opinion, it must stop at the spot where it has fallen to, or move in odd way, trying to “fulfill” the set route….
But sure not how it is.May 22, 2007 at 4:46 pm #42295
Agreed and Agreed. Glad you pointed out the ways a person’s shot can go wrong.May 22, 2007 at 5:52 pm #42296
There already is the ability for the tank to shoot and fire. It has been there for v40.1 but the weapon must be built specifically to shoot and move.
The ability to select any weapon and also move is not available yet, but it is possible in the future. Perhaps not for the next version I don’t think.May 22, 2007 at 6:05 pm #42297
Merge has something close to what you are describing. Strafing Run. You simply set your shot, and then select a fuel point. The tank makes the drive, as usual, while shooting fifteen times as he drives at the angle and power you set.
And then we had the wonderful tactic of simply driving 0 units, using no gas, and still firing fifteen shots. Thrax therefor made it result in a suicide (the joking reason being that the barrel of the gun would overheat without moving).
This made tons of new tactics. You can now dodge and shoot, or spray a group of enemies in a line. I’d say the best tactic developed would be to drive towards your enemy while driving. They miss, while you can land every shot.
Actually, just yesterday all the players on Merge were discussing with Thrax alternative firing weapons for the strafe. One in particular was a single small napalm shot.May 23, 2007 at 12:26 am #42298
And also my mod…
Try out Flank!
😉May 24, 2007 at 1:44 pm #42299
It is way cool that you have these interesting weapons. Great idea and great job of those who invented and developed them.
But in general, there is fundamental difference between having one, two, or even 10 peculiar weapons that allow you to move and fire, and possibility to use ANY weapon with moving.
Sure, having some kinds of weapon which do this – only this gives the ability to attack and secure yourself from contrary shots at once. A great benefit.
But beyond this basic evident neccesity for this, or situations like when you have small nasty obstacle limiting your ability to shoot, whereas this obstacle is not a problem for your opponent with Big Bomb – there are more.
In every round, from the position you get, you have more or less favourable conditions to perform shots at different targets with different types of weapon. Sometimes we see that player A is difficult to reach directly but much easier with roller. Or this weapon is sandhog, napalm, funky, leapfrog, laser, nuke, digger – any weapon… (and mod players know better about peculiar mod weapons also)
Combination of such things as landscape in the way of shot and landscape (or its absence) in the expected destination area, weather, type of walls, positions of targets – you can often see that conditions are quite favourable to use some peculiar weapon, but not from your present position.
For example, your current position is unappropriate for shot with rollers – too difficult try, obviously you die before succeed, but if you could move a little to receive the opportunity maybe not for really easy, buy at least possible shot…
Having the possibility to move and fire, one can use such opportunities, not wait for them, without losing precious turns for only moving.
Of course, seeing these opportunities and using them – it requires attention, analysis, skill, and takes a lot of time also. And sometimes badly performed moves/shots because of lacking time will be the price to pay for trying to use this advantage.
So implementation of this idea hardly will change the whole game making it too dynamic – when every player in every turn uses moving and firing.
But movement can become an instrument of agression, whereas in current conditions, taking one turn, and turns are worth their weight in gold, it is rather instrument for salvation.May 24, 2007 at 1:55 pm #42300
I can see the advantages of what you suggest, but even with below novice modding skills I can see that what you ask would require a change to the source code (which I leave well enough alone) the only answer for this in version 40.1 would be the strafing run (thank you for that one thrax), which can be then used as a frame for other strafe weapons.May 24, 2007 at 2:35 pm #42301
So you are suggesting a system where you select your weapon and your fuel point, and then commence a move/fire? That would definitely make Scorched revolve more around tank tactics (seeing that the last time I checked, tanks move quite a bit, lol).
The definite downside is that it would decrease accuracy for other parties dramatically, assuming most use the move/fire. Which would make every round inconclusive. More moves in a round could be the answer, but I feel that too many and not many people would play a whole game.
A definite counter weapon would be a sandhog. Already, players use sandhogs when they suspect their target will motor away (at least I know I do….).
Overall, I like the concept. It would make Scorched matches to become much more tactical. Although there is the possibility that players will simply resort to such large weapons that the fuel move is negated. Assuming they can afford them. Sandhogs would also become much more prominent.
A counter to the sandhog ordeal perhaps could be a sort of upside-down umbrella shield, that protects from sandhogs exclusively, while offering no protecting from above.
I do agree that in some situations fuel seems to almost waste a move. After the move, the enemy simply has to adjust his/her shot, equaling that you simply delayed your death. A more detailed move/fire would allow you to strike back.
And then The AI does have a point, I doubt that 40.1 Scorched has code for this. 41, perhaps, but you’d have to bring this idea to the Dev. Team.May 25, 2007 at 8:11 am #42302
Well thats the idea I believe. The first time I read this topic I “knew” that this would be a heavy change in design not something light. It’s just an idea being thrown to the sharks at this moment.
Also, KTM made me think of something and that is… would it be better to Move then Fire, or Fire then Move?
Now sure it could be designed both ways and a mere server setting (radio button to select either A or B) but.. I think to move THEN fire would really complicate things and add in some challenge.
Becuase first and foremost those downsides of terrain changes and target changes (and possible death before firing) all exist. But also your not planning your shot from where you are…. but where you want to be! Which can be a night and day difference in wind or cliff conditions.
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