This topic contains 109 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  tlon 7 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #51143

    bazzz
    Participant

    Wow,i dont even know how to react to this,for this to make sense you would have to believe that any attempt to find a better way of getting energy in the last 80 years has failed. I guess you believe that the government and big oil are working together to prevent us from getting clean energy.Or something else….

    I dont want to ridicule anyone but there is a lot that doesnt make sense in your post.All the claims you make about hydrogen producing violate the laws of thermodynamics.
    I would love to believe there is an easy way to get cheap energy but it hasnt been done, claims on the internet i would treat with care. People are masters of decieving themselves, make sure you dont lose your self-critisism and keep an open mind.

    I think you are mistaken if this is what you believe, i dont believe i have the skill to make you change you mind but if you want to know why i think youre wrong feel free to pm me.

    highest regards, bazzz

    #51144

    Viking62
    Participant

    I do not want to get into a urinating contest over my previous posting. That said….. For sure, Nothing is free! But, do some research of your own–My quote: “The man that accepts things the way they are…is but a mere puppet of society”.

    Browns Gas-HHO

    http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/RhodesGas/

    Nuff said,
    Da Vike

    #51145

    bazzz
    Participant

    But Da vike i have done enough research in whats real and whats not ,and for sure i dont accept things for what they are.
    Say, if someone makes a claim that doesnt confirm what i believe i wont let him get away with it as i believe there is a lot of false claims and if possible they have to be corrected.Not that i rule out that i could be wrong but in this case it would be very unlikely.
    I suppose with your quote you suggest that man is me. If you truly believe you werent talking out of the wrong orfice- I challenge you to a duel where we both compare our personal beliefs and use rational arguments to decide who will be the champion.
    If you dont want a rational argument i suggest you give me no reply- feel free to not do it publicly and pm me.

    slightly less than highest regards,bazzz

    #51146

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    So where do you get your information Bazz?

    I like to keep an open mind and one nice (close) quote from ‘friends’

    “Scientists said the world was flat, but turned out they were wrong
    Scientists said the atom was the smallest thing in the universe, hang on, theres loads of stuff in an atom”

    LOTS of information we can get is censored, the level varies throughout.

    The only scientific law I KNOW to be true (althought I very strongly believe a lot of them) is:

    Sods law

    #51147

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    i agree with peanuts. (please dont quote me). best to keep an open mind.

    conservation of energy. bazz has a point. my (limited) understanding is that breaking water into hydrogen through electrolysis, requires input of more energy in the form of electricity, than youd get back from burning the hydrogen. isnt that one of the physics fundamentals? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

    but its not hard to imagine people stumbling across unknown effects by accident

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion

    i dont doubt there are more efficient, cheaper fuels. i do think some of these ideas raise legitimate security concerns for the government. i mean, outside of the threat to the economy through oil prices dropping.

    #51148

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    @laptops Daddy wrote:

    i agree with peanuts. (please dont quote me). best to keep an open mind.

    Blimey Mr L. T. Cat.
    Had to go against your wishes in case you came to your senses and edited 🙂

    I am sceptical of Da Vikes claims, although people ARE always stumbling on solutions that they were not looking for tht revolusionise industries.

    Reminds me of the stupid claims of ZEV’s (Zero emissions Vehicles), I mean come on, who actually believes that there is a car coming on the next four years that will have ZERO emissions?
    Stupid Arnie and stupid car companies for saying they will have them in production in time to meet the new legislation.

    #51149

    bazzz
    Participant

    First of all sorry rommel for polluting your history tread, maybe someone could move the current discussion to a new one.

    PR-sods law, very funny but i do believe you are affected by various laws of nature you cant break, like the ones of thermodynamics. If you or someone claims that it can be done I and many others are interested- especially science if there was a totally new and simple way of making reality behave with unthinkable profits.
    So if anyone wants to make that claim it goes against the scientific understanding we have how “stuff” behaves- you better have a good demonstration.You would pretty much have to reject science.

    I like to keep an open mind and one nice (close) quote from ‘friends’

    “Scientists said the world was flat, but turned out they were wrong
    Scientists said the atom was the smallest thing in the universe, hang on, theres loads of stuff in an atom”

    LOTS of information we can get is censored, the level varies throughout.

    There are always people who make silly claims-the scientists who claimed the world was flat were proven wrong and the overwhelming majority of people today believe the scientific consensus-eart is an irregular sphere.
    When the atom was dicovered some claimed it was the smallest building block the world was made of, but when others learned more about it they saw atoms behave in a non orderly way- there had to be something else.
    If you conclude science was wrong you dont seem to grasp what science really is- the combined knowledge of this world.That doent mean its perfect, the method of science tries to describe how this world we live in behaves- despite our limitations.It has a lot of methods that tries to distinguish between real and not real.

    Once a hypothesis has survived testing, it may become adopted into the framework of a scientific theory. This is a logically reasoned, self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of certain natural phenomena. A theory typically describes the behavior of much broader sets of phenomena than a hypothesis—commonly, a large number of hypotheses can be logically bound together by a single theory. These broader theories may be formulated using principles such as parsimony (e.g., “Occam’s Razor”). They are then repeatedly tested by analyzing how the collected evidence (facts) compares to the theory. When a theory survives a sufficiently large number of empirical observations, it then becomes a scientific generalization that can be taken as fully verified. These assume the status of a physical law or law of nature.-wikipedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science#Scientific_method

    Thats what i like about it it`s self critical-like me.Altough i cant be 100% sure im right, i have been wrong before, my understanding of science gives me confidence to distinguish between real and not real.

    Personal beliefs- there are as many personal beliefs as there are people, i dont mind people believing what they believe but its different when you start claiming truth.If you do make sure what you`re talking about is not something other people can ridicule easily.
    To me the claim viking made was the equivalent of buying snake oil and bragging how great it is and that you going to live to be 200. Easily to ridicule hard to have a rational discussion about.

    And i have an open mind-if someone has a better truth than i have i will adopt that truth.

    LD-

    Cold fusion is a controversial effect reported by some researchers to have been produced from nuclear reaction at conditions near room temperature and atmospheric pressure.-wikipedia

    cold fusion is currently unproven- see the contoversial in there. It might be true but its too vague to call it a scientific truth.

    On January 27, 2006, researchers at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute claimed to have produced fusion reactions by sonoluminescence, without an external neutron source, according to a paper published in Physical Review Letters.[1][2] To date, these results have not been reproduced by other members of the scientific community.-wiki,solumenence

    Another controversial claim-they did it but noone after that has been able to reproduce it.There might be something going on there but its not easy to do.And these are “serious” scientists who have a well equipped laboratory and write serious papers with serious claims.They could be just decieving themselves or trying to get money for their research.
    If such a grand claim is made by people who you cant easily discard thousends of scientists will look at it immediatly and if they cant do it they will regard it as contovesial.
    If some guy in his garage build something like that and writes it on the internet its too unlikely to be true and should be adressed that way.

    This post is long enough as it is so for all your questions about “how to differentiate between real and not real”, or critisism about what i said please reply.I am always prepared to hear what you think about it and willing to discuss it.

    Dont believe what i tell you do your own thinking you lazy bastages 😈 -bazzz

    #51150

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    @bazzz wrote:

    …cold fusion is currently unproven…

    the sonoluminescence link was the one i thought more relevant. fluid mechanics, resonant frequencies. worth looking at, its not science fiction.

    i dont believe these ideas are particularly farfetched. consider how far consumer technology has come in the last 10 years alone. they were splitting atoms 80 years ago. millions of very clever people dedicate their lives to this stuff. i wouldnt even guess at cutting edge military energy technology, but id bet a lot of money it goes way beyond the snippets we consider ‘proven’ in wikipedia terms.

    #51151

    bazzz
    Participant

    the sonoluminescence link was the one i thought more relevant. fluid mechanics, resonant frequencies. worth looking at, its not science fiction.

    I understand what the mechanics are in sonoluminence there and why it exites people but fact is that the claims of temperatures above 1M K are unproven

    The wavelength of emitted light is very short; the spectrum can reach into the ultraviolet. Light of shorter wavelength has higher energy, and the measured spectrum of emitted light seems to indicate a temperature in the bubble of at least 20,000 kelvin, up to a possible temperature in excess of one megakelvin. The veracity of these estimates is hindered by the fact that water, for example, absorbs nearly all wavelengths below 200 nm. This has led to differing estimates on the temperatures in the bubble, since they are extrapolated from the emission spectra taken during collapse, or estimated using a modified Rayleigh-Plesset equation (see below). Some estimates put the inside of the bubble at one gigakelvin. These estimates are based on models which cannot be verified at present, and may include too many unsupported assumptions.

    At 20000k its not likely fusion will happen- not at atmospheric pressure.Altough it cant be ruled out its happening at 20000k- our knowledge is limited- you may assume its not easy to make it happen or someone would have standarised a test for others to see it happening.
    But even if there is cold fusion going on not likely we will be able to put it to practical use- learn about “hot” fusion and you will see the huge effort put into it to make it work, there are plenty of obstacles to be taken before its usable- cold fusion would be someting i want to be true ,but fact is the only fusion we use is the one inside a hydrogenbomb- not practical to heat your home.

    Too many assumptions lead to a bigger uncertancy it to be true.Thats why it is important to understand whats happening and why its happening before you make a claim.Or someone with a bigger understanding of the subject will point the flaws in ones reasoning.Its evolution- the true ideas will prevail the false will die out- in science that is ,this reasoning cannot be applied in politics but thats a discussion for another day.

    bazzz

    #51152

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    @bazzz wrote:

    ..learn about “hot” fusion and you will see the huge effort put into it to make it work, there are plenty of obstacles to be taken before its usable- cold fusion would be someting i want to be true ,but fact is the only fusion we use is the one inside a hydrogenbomb- not practical to heat your home.

    arent hbombs mostly fission based? ask rommel, he knows about that stuff

    http://www.jet.efda.org/pages/jet.html

    yeap, all very interesting. do you agree “they”‘d have legitimate grounds to suppress knowledge about some of this stuff? (world security/balance of power issues)

    #51153

    Rommel
    Participant

    .

    #51154

    Viking62
    Participant

    Defending one’s self is akin to throwing a funkie bomb into the midst of non-believers;)

    Water electrolysis is simply the breaking down of water into its basic hydrogen and oxygen
    atoms by passing an electronic current through it. You don’t even have to add an electrolyte
    (such as acid) to the water to assure electrical conductivity, as is required with a battery; plain
    old tap water works fine because it contains natural electrolytes such as minerals, and also
    municipal additives such as chlorine which also aid in electrical conductivity. In fact, electrolysis
    is in many ways similar to the reaction which occurs within your vehicles’ battery. Electrolysis of
    water is nothing new; it was first accomplished nearly a century ago. But, until technologies
    like the water‐hybrid system were developed, *it required a high voltage power supply and
    consumed vast amounts of electrical energy. It actually required much more electrical energy
    than the energy derived from the combustion of the resulting hydrogen and oxygen. In other
    words, it (was/past tense) an extremely inefficient process that had limited practical use.*
    The water‐hybrid system is a practical solution developed for use in fuel‐injected and
    carbureted motor vehicles. The secret of the water‐hybrid system lies within its electronic control pulse module. It produced relatively low voltage, but uniquely shaped electronic pulses of precise
    frequency and duration. The overall power consumption of the electronic control pulse module and the entire
    water‐hybrid system is fairly low; actually low enough to be easily powered by your vehicles’
    excess electrical and heat output, and with enough reserve power left to help run all your
    vehicle’s other electrical devices.

    Nicola Tesla would be proud…..

    *Relative discussion pertaining to the Energy required to excite vs.the energy released for power production*
    Hmmm-After the initial cost of a solar system backed up by battery banks & inverters & Tesla coils (home-made)….would the cost of hydrogen production even out @ present natural gas/Propane,gasoline,kerosine,fuel oil prices?


    How does a little 9volt battery that powers a hand held transistor radio(AM/FM)………..Also, power a stun gun capable of producing an electrical charge way outside the small batteries “normal” perameters?


    I personaly have the belief that nothing is impossible. It seems way too easy nowdays to give up on movin forward and accepting old technology as gospel for what can/what cannot, be achieved. Our scientific forefathers gave us the basic building blocks (many dedicated their lives to many different endeavors). Have you never thought….Wow…..I should’v
    thought of that? Right now…..the people of the world are at the most technologicaly advanced & most educated level in all of man’s history.

    I have come to know quite a diverse group of people here in Scorched3d from around the world. Of which, a vast majority are my friends. I have the uttmost respect for most all of you also. It seems to me that most of you are capable of great things if you aim your mind in the right direction. . . . .

    *I have many interests* Example:
    I just made a DIY HDTV antenna…..Made of clothes hanger wire……typical household copper wiring…..an old metal(painted steel) shelf as a reflector…..a wood 2×4″ riser…..a 300/75 ohm balun…….pipe tape for washers….and some cheap wood screws (No cost-all was in my shop builing)-Took me 3 hours to build. guess what…..It works!!

    You all go spend your hard earned $$…….I’ll keep on striving to use things that work and watch as most stimulate their homeland economies 😉

    #51155

    Deathbal
    Participant

    I just find it hard to believe that after all of this time we are basically using the same engine. Sure there have been improvements, but no real leaps.

    The electric car was introduced several decades ago. It was slow, didn’t get many miles and expensive. But in the mean time it has hardly been improved. And any model that was, is extremely expensive.

    Look at the leap computers made. Look at how far we’ve come in weapons from WWI, WWII and now.

    I do believe oil is one of earth’s greatest resources and should be taken advantage of. But once the price starts to hurt the economy it gets you thinking. Now i’m not one to firmly believe alternate methods have been supressed. But i’m not going to count it out either. At some point you’d have to ask yourself this hypothetical. What would happen as a result of an alternative to oil in vehicals? What would be the consecuences? Are there reasons to supress any such tech? I think the answer would be a resounding yes. But that alone doesn’t make it true.

    #51156

    Viking62
    Participant

    Just fyi: Da Vike is’nt crazy–Just a backwoods Hillbilly of Viking decent raising cattle for kicks….In search of a simpler way of life…… Rofl. . . .


    Who taught you that? *Not aimed at anyone in particular* –> Once taught a certain way;It is very hard to think anything else can exist 😉

    Be careful of the band wagon you join…… . . It can lead you to a cliff…1,2,3,
    jump!

    Some other nuts,crazies,& otherwise mislead individuals:
    http://www.motortrend.com/features/editorial/112_0701_technologue

    http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/112_news051028_ford_focus

    http://www.evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=18132&url=

    *Have ya heard of these?* Of course not….
    http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2008/Diesel-Motorcycle80mpg11feb08.htm

    http://www.dieselpowermag.com/news/0604dp_100_mpg_diesel_motorcycle/build_up.html

    I was recently going to buy a 2008 Kawasaki KLR650 4 stroke motorcycle…….then…I ran across the same motorcycle that the U.S.Gov’t military has had contracted to them for a few years now–>The version I could buy gets approx. 45-55mpg……….The Gov’t has sole rights to the one that gets 90+ mpg on Diesel……Is in use right now & with the addition of civilian attire, is street legal. Surpressed information? Naw…..we just cannot see past our own noses

    😆

    #51157

    bazzz
    Participant

    To LD

    arent hbombs mostly fission based? ask rommel, he knows about that stuff

    http://www.jet.efda.org/pages/jet.html

    yeap, all very interesting. do you agree “they”‘d have legitimate grounds to suppress knowledge about some of this stuff? (world security/balance of power issues)

    A hbomb is essential a abomb with a fusable core(i believe they use deutrium but i could be wrong)

    I do not agree as “they” could mean anything and i dont have any evidence of the existence of a coherent group of powerfull people capable of pulling that off.Also i dont see why powerfull people wouldnt steal such information with force and use it for their own profits.Unless you dont mean people but exraterrestrials or mystical beings in parallel dimensions.then you might be right. 😛

    to viking

    Water electrolysis is simply the breaking down of water into its basic hydrogen and oxygen
    atoms by passing an electronic current through it. You don’t even have to add an electrolyte
    (such as acid) to the water to assure electrical conductivity, as is required with a battery; plain
    old tap water works fine because it contains natural electrolytes such as minerals, and also
    municipal additives such as chlorine which also aid in electrical conductivity. In fact, electrolysis
    is in many ways similar to the reaction which occurs within your vehicles’ battery. Electrolysis of
    water is nothing new; it was first accomplished nearly a century ago. But, until technologies
    like the water‐hybrid system were developed, *it required a high voltage power supply and
    consumed vast amounts of electrical energy. It actually required much more electrical energy
    than the energy derived from the combustion of the resulting hydrogen and oxygen. In other
    words, it (was/past tense) an extremely inefficient process that had limited practical use.*
    The water‐hybrid system is a practical solution developed for use in fuel‐injected and
    carbureted motor vehicles. The secret of the water‐hybrid system lies within its electronic control pulse module. It produced relatively low voltage, but uniquely shaped electronic pulses of precise
    frequency and duration. The overall power consumption of the electronic control pulse module and the entire
    water‐hybrid system is fairly low; actually low enough to be easily powered by your vehicles’
    excess electrical and heat output, and with enough reserve power left to help run all your
    vehicle’s other electrical devices.

    producing hydrogen is only good for storing energy -understand the law of energy conservation and you know why.

    Hmmm-After the initial cost of a solar system backed up by battery banks & inverters & Tesla coils (home-made)….would the cost of hydrogen production even out @ present natural gas/Propane,gasoline,kerosine,fuel oil prices?

    I like this question. As far as i know most hydrogen we use is made out of oil as it is more energy efficient than to make from water- altough it burns cleaner you couldnt possibly call it “green”.For hydrogenproduction with solarpower solar panels have to drop in price even more than they have, but it might take less than 5 years to reach that point- if oil prices stay this high.And again hydrogen is only the storage medium.

    How does a little 9volt battery that powers a hand held transistor radio(AM/FM)………..Also, power a stun gun capable of producing an electrical charge way outside the small batteries “normal” perameters?

    Without looking for this information in an easy and covenient place i can only assume it works like the ignition of a car.capacitor stores energy and induction in the primary coil steps up the voltage.but there are electronics that can do it too and there are even other ways of producing sparks.
    The capacitor tough is the most important ingredient to get to short bursts of high energy.

    I personaly have the belief that nothing is impossible. It seems way too easy nowdays to give up on movin forward and accepting old technology as gospel for what can/what cannot, be achieved. Our scientific forefathers gave us the basic building blocks (many dedicated their lives to many different endeavors). Have you never thought….Wow…..I should’v
    thought of that? Right now…..the people of the world are at the most technologicaly advanced & most educated level in all of man’s history.

    Nothing is impossible i do agree with that- but some things are less likely than others.Could it possibly be that you have to learn how to better differentiate between things that are likely and unlikely?

    I have come to know quite a diverse group of people here in Scorched3d from around the world. Of which, a vast majority are my friends. I have the uttmost respect for most all of you also. It seems to me that most of you are capable of great things if you aim your mind in the right direction. . . . .

    Thank you and i feel the same, great things are the combined effort of many people as are horrible things that have happened- its still problematic for human judgement to know the right direction.

    congratulations with your antenna, just dont go making claims it works 10 times better than the best commercial models.I myself make sound devices from stuff i have laying around, i joke to people sometimes that they are the most advanced noise generating devices available, but i know some people are lightyears ahead of what i do, that doesnt make it any less fun- if anyone is interested i can show you my electric feedback tuba.

    to Deathbal

    Elecric cars have the problem of the very limited storage of enery to weight ratio.Good news tough there are lots of new and promising technologies that claim to improve the ratio by at least a factor 10.But they all have to be proven to be as good as the claims.Have a look at the tesla sportscar and things look good tough.

    I do believe oil is one of earth’s greatest resources and should be taken advantage of. But once the price starts to hurt the economy it gets you thinking. Now i’m not one to firmly believe alternate methods have been supressed. But i’m not going to count it out either. At some point you’d have to ask yourself this hypothetical. What would happen as a result of an alternative to oil in vehicals? What would be the consecuences? Are there reasons to supress any such tech? I think the answer would be a resounding yes. But that alone doesn’t make it true.

    Very hard to predict indeed and all the oil in the gound is a lot of buisness to be done.I hope man is wise enough to do it in a decent way but thats a subject i still(^^8) hope to adress in”who wants snow”

    to viking

    Just fyi: Da Vike is’nt crazy–Just a backwoods Hillbilly of Viking decent raising cattle for kicks….In search of a simpler way of life…… Rofl. . . .


    Who taught you that? *Not aimed at anyone in particular* –> Once taught a certain way;It is very hard to think anything else can exist

    Thats a truth that goes for anyone( the second part i mean of course as the first one goes for only a few)

    Those links are interesting and i wouldnt call them nuts, at worst misleading at some points or over optimistic.
    and once again- hydrogen is a enery storage in this instance-no claims of fusing anyting.

    I like the idea of the motorcycle with turbodiesel but its harldy a surprise diesel engines use less fuel- you get more energy from diesel than you would get from gas.The volkswagen lupo gets close to 90 miles a gallon and thats a car that is heavier and has more wind resistance.I,m not sure if its sold in the u.s. but lupo is the european name for it.

    Phew thats all for now, previewing this i think i made a Rommel and would like to apologise for that- i know you hate to read long posts. 😈

    edited a spelling error-im slightly stoned and may have made more let me know if you find them

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