This topic contains 84 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  comedown 9 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #52930

    Raden
    Participant

    @bigbear wrote:

    I don’t recall stopping and certainly not over this issue. 😉

    🙂

    #52931

    Deathbal
    Participant

    Even if dirt has been misplaced, the reaction of another anti-dirter will still be the same no matter what the cause. They would still call you the names and they would still gang up on you and thats why I don’t see why the price should change even if its misplaced.

    You weren’t here when Funky bombs were 18k for 2. People using funky bombs a lot would sometimes take abuse as well. Calling it cheap or saying, “Don’t you use anything else”? Some played the entire game only using them. Now you don’t see any of that. Now it’s a good kill.

    #52932

    bazzz
    Participant

    That is by far the worst argument I have ever heard.

    I`m sure it doesnt take much effort to find worse arguments in the words of lawyers and politicians.But the logical fallacy you pointed out remains tough.

    You weren’t here when Funky bombs were 18k for 2. People using funky bombs a lot would sometimes take abuse as well. Calling it cheap or saying, “Don’t you use anything else”? Some played the entire game only using them. Now you don’t see any of that. Now it’s a good kill.

    Lets take dirt and lasers the funky bomb way i`d say, then maybe the controversy will go away.
    And we can find something else to discuss.

    #52933

    BigBear
    Participant

    @bazzz wrote:

    I`m sure it doesnt take much effort to find worse arguments in the words of lawyers and politicians.But the logical fallacy you pointed out remains tough.

    I could have specified the context as being debating dirt in this forum, but I felt that it was implied. Otherwise I would agree with you for sure. 😉

    @bazzz wrote:

    Lets take dirt and lasers the funky bomb way i`d say, then maybe the controversy will go away.

    I don’t think that is going to happen as they are there as a tribute to the original game. Besides, the point DB was making (and a good one at that if I may say so) is that a big nuisance can be overcome quite easily with some minor editing to improve on balance.

    #52934

    bazzz
    Participant

    I dont think i suggested to remove dirt or lasers- funky bombs are still in the game are they not?

    So i guess the way funkyboms got “fixed” was either the prise was raised, people adopted the strategy and the price regulated itself, or was there a change in the weapon itself ,or maybe something else?

    Why cant this be done for dirt and for lasers? It seems to be a problem for many.

    If i was a politician i would have just said why do dirthaters HATE scorched3d, why dont they see that this is the GREATEST game on earth!But i prefer to think about what is not perfect and how can we change things for the better instead of blaming anyone who doesnt agree with me. 😉

    #52935

    Thrax
    Participant

    @bazzz wrote:

    I dont think i suggested to remove dirt or lasers- funky bombs
    are still in the game are they not?

    So i guess the way funkyboms got “fixed” was either the prise was raised,
    people adopted the strategy and the price regulated itself, or was there a
    change in the weapon itself ,or maybe something else?

    Why cant this be done for dirt and for lasers? It seems to be a problem
    for many.

    If i was a politician i would have just said why do dirthaters HATE
    scorched3d, why dont they see that this is the GREATEST game on earth!
    But i prefer to think about what is not perfect and how can we change
    things for the better instead of blaming anyone who doesnt agree with
    me. 😉

    Funks got a randomized timing in them so they pop out in a staggered
    spray, not all at once. Then, the free-market got a tweak letting them
    rise more than before..
    Both effects helped manage thier usage a little.

    lasers and dirt always drop in price to thier minimum.. since people are
    too afraid or un-skilled enough to use them. Both are valid weapons,
    and joined, they are a valid tactic.. However, since many players don’t
    know how to counter it, it’s deemed undesirable.. and often targetted
    first due to it’s obvious deadly-ness.

    Raising thier price won’t help a lot, since they will simply drop again from
    lack of use. Instead, consider learning defences and counters. Or
    request a laser-proofing to a few shields..

    #52937

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    Firstly, half of the reason for runky acceptantcy was having them weakened. A half decent shot is now required for a kill and a vns for a multi-kill, whereas previously any fool could pick up 2-3 kills.
    The other reason was pricing.

    However, the price of dirt is at its max on main, a few players know that as we bought up a whole chunk of it and the price remained the same.

    If the same logic is applied to dirt as with funkys… taking away the dirt charges ability to added while already under dirt, and had their base price increased, they would be less frowned upon and used more either offense or defensively without guilt.

    Hogs are far more accepted now and mostly I think because the price was risen meaning that someone had to ‘earn’ those hogs by either saving or killing.

    #52938

    Rommel
    Participant

    Excellent post Thrax, I have nothing to add.@thrax wrote:

    @bazzz wrote:

    I dont think i suggested to remove dirt or lasers- funky bombs
    are still in the game are they not?

    So i guess the way funkyboms got “fixed” was either the prise was raised,
    people adopted the strategy and the price regulated itself, or was there a
    change in the weapon itself ,or maybe something else?

    Why cant this be done for dirt and for lasers? It seems to be a problem
    for many.

    If i was a politician i would have just said why do dirthaters HATE
    scorched3d, why dont they see that this is the GREATEST game on earth!
    But i prefer to think about what is not perfect and how can we change
    things for the better instead of blaming anyone who doesnt agree with
    me. 😉

    Funks got a randomized timing in them so they pop out in a staggered
    spray, not all at once. Then, the free-market got a tweak letting them
    rise more than before..
    Both effects helped manage thier usage a little.

    lasers and dirt always drop in price to thier minimum.. since people are
    too afraid or un-skilled enough to use them. Both are valid weapons,
    and joined, they are a valid tactic.. However, since many players don’t
    know how to counter it, it’s deemed undesirable.. and often targetted
    first due to it’s obvious deadly-ness.

    Raising thier price won’t help a lot, since they will simply drop again from
    lack of use. Instead, consider learning defences and counters. Or
    request a laser-proofing to a few shields..

    #52939

    BigBear
    Participant

    @thrax wrote:

    Funks got a randomized timing in them so they pop out in a staggered
    spray, not all at once. Then, the free-market got a tweak letting them
    rise more than before..
    Both effects helped manage thier usage a little.

    lasers and dirt always drop in price to thier minimum.. since people are
    too afraid or un-skilled enough to use them. Both are valid weapons,
    and joined, they are a valid tactic.. However, since many players don’t
    know how to counter it, it’s deemed undesirable.. and often targetted
    first due to it’s obvious deadly-ness.

    Raising thier price won’t help a lot, since they will simply drop again from
    lack of use. Instead, consider learning defences and counters. Or
    request a laser-proofing to a few shields..

    You are correct about the contributing factors that ended the unrestricted funky fest that used to plague main. However, call me picky if you will but the effects of these changes are MAJOR. Also, as far as I can tell the free market (seriously that code need some major work towards less suxxage) is not unrestricted, which means that base price has A LOT to do with balance. Lastly, finding items/weapon to be unbalanced does NOT automatically imply that you are unaware of the possible counters. That MIGHT be the case, but then again it could also just mean that you want a solid item/weapon set that works well and allows for the maximum amount of viable tactics. The funkys were way more unbalanced than dirt is/ever was, but that doesn’t mean some tweaking on dirt would be a bad thing imo.

    #52940

    Thrax
    Participant

    @bigbear wrote:

    You are correct about the contributing factors that ended the unrestricted
    funky fest that used to plague main. However, call me picky if you will but the
    effects of these changes are MAJOR. Also, as far as I can tell the free market
    (seriously that code need some major work towards less suxxage) is not
    unrestricted, which means that base price has A LOT to do with balance.
    Lastly, finding items/weapon to be unbalanced does NOT automatically imply
    that you are unaware of the possible counters. That MIGHT be the case, but
    then again it could also just mean that you want a solid item/weapon set that
    works well and allows for the maximum amount of viable tactics. The funkys
    were way more unbalanced than dirt is/ever was, but that doesn’t mean some
    tweaking on dirt would be a bad thing imo.

    The largest change to market in v41, was larger upper and lower limits.
    Commonly 1/3 to 3x base(cfg-able in server-xml)
    However, yes, the code itself isn’t 100% efficient.

    I have rewritten the market code in the mod-servers for a bit better equality,
    and have had my players testing it now for about 6-7 months; With great
    results. However, since it doesn’t use the same calculating method as Gavins,
    I’m not certian if it he would implement it directly.

    Gavins code: market factor of 1 ; 100 used in calcs
    Item bought is compared to items similar. eg 12 items match price-level
    item bought is increased by 100 -100/12
    items not bought lowered by 100/12 each.
    total cash changed isn’t 100% equal, and any decimal-points are lost in a
    change back to integer.
    more matching items increases the gap in cash equality

    Mod-tested code: factor 1
    Item bought is compared to items similar. eg 12 items match price-level
    item bought is increased by 12 *factor. 12$
    items not bought are reduced by 1 *factor. 12 items drop by 1$ each
    total cash is equal, integer based.
    more items matching, increases only the bought items rise each time.

    with the 1/3 to 3x limits, the prices slide around a lot creating bargians often.

    #52941

    BigBear
    Participant

    I am for any improvement of the free market code. However, my point is that even if the increment/decrement code is made better, the 1/3 to 3x limit makes the item base price the most important factor. Thus, there are two possible solutions the way I see it.
    1. The (upper) limit is removed resulting in a free market in a more true sense.
    2. The base prices are configured “properly” according to power/usability of the item.

    #52942

    Exiled One
    Participant

    Market market market…..the only thing Thrax ever comes up with that I think could work if everyone buys dirt for the last round which could cause the price of dirt to go up…..Anyway good idea with that laser proof shield.

    I dont understand the codes behind this market thing or if its perfect or not. But I dont see any chnages coming to the market any time soon….so back to a proposal.

    Lets just get this problem over with.

    Anyway I have an ultimatum for the scorch community plus the admins and I am not speaking for other pro-dirters. The pro-dirters can come with something else or they can agree or the can hate me as much as they want.

    1. If the price of dirt changes then the pro-dirters should not hear any lousy or other comments or complaining while playing like calling you coward or pooh your pants or etc.

    2. If the anti-dirters start complaining then the price of dirt should be turn back to its original price.

    3. If the price of dirt changes permanently then riot bombs should also change.

    Other pro-dirters….if you guys have something good to add….your welcome to.

    Thanks

    Yours,

    Exiled One

    In the end, I want to say even if the price of dirt changes, I am a proud figure to be a pro-dirter which will never change about me.

    #52943

    Rommel
    Participant

    I like things just the way are and wish people would stop trying to FIX the game so THEY can win. Apparently you all like the game or you wouldn’t be reading this. That being the case, learn how to play it. That is the best advice I can offer any of you.

    #52944

    BigBear
    Participant

    @rommel wrote:

    I like things just the way are and wish people would stop trying to FIX the game so THEY can win. Apparently you all like the game or you wouldn’t be reading this. That being the case, learn how to play it. That is the best advice I can offer any of you.

    *** EDIT ***
    I think I might have been a bit too harsh initially. I still would like to give YOU the advice that you should come up something better than claiming that ppl that find dirt unbalanced should learn to play the game if you wanna be taken seriously.

    #52945

    Exiled One
    Participant

    Man BB…some instances I have felt that you were very harsh but some friendly. Hey General, I agree lets play the game the way it is…forget about the my dumass proposal because it will will never change the game.

    I guess, I will always take the pressure from anti-dirters and I will also have to put everyone on mute as no one will like me because of their complains until I go nuts 👿 .

    Hehe…no laser proof shields would come in to existence either…some chance to knock some dumass off his horse.

    Anyway…lets just end this topic by saying that the game will not change and its good the way it is no matter how many people complain no matter how many dumasses die no matter how many people will turn from friends to enemies. etc…because thats how the game works and plays.

    Yours,

    Exiled One

    I guess I have to call myself a dumass until I could think right for bring this topic up.

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