This topic contains 8 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Rommel 7 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #7113

    pastor of muppets
    Participant

    There seems to be a lot of controversy over Boy’s changes. Here is what I have to say on that matter and then I will let it rest for discussion.

    Boy made changes hoping to experiment to bring back some competition and gameplay on the empty servers. Thrax’s servers are always populated because Thrax is always making changes. In main most of us me included. do not want too many changes done to the weapons and defenses since it is true to the original scorch. What can we change? The scoring system, the ranking system, the rules of engagement, the economy and the strategy. Boy did this hoping to see how the changes affected game play and participation. (Boy if I’m out of line let me know).

    Now that the changes have been made I have heard good things and bad things I have heard complaining, rumors of quitting the game, people saying Boy is a dictator trying to control the game and people cheering on Boy and his changes. Some from current admins, some from a former admin that should still be one IMO, some from players new and old.

    Here is my suggestion(s).

    First of all if you are an admin and you feel Boy acted out of line tell him and change things back, this is your right. Boy only acted as a “lone ranger” becuase he felt he had to, if you are active and have an opinion it is your right to speak up and change things back. If you are not sure of what changes he made I feel it is within your right to demand he change things back until further discussion and a consensus among the admins.

    Secondly if this is the case do an admin Role Call for those that don’t respond suspend their admin privelages except for the admin forum let them post there later why they didn’t respond and then either re-instate them or vote on whether their participation warrants admin status and then make a decision.

    Thirdly form a focus group make a forum where they can post ideas, only the people chosen for the focus group can post there. Let players PM the focus group and put their input in on PM’s then let the focus group discuss what to do. Along with the focus group make a test site for changes one that is only for people who are chosen to test there and that group can decide what changes come into “main” and which do not. This test site can be for veterans, newer regulars, noobs with potential and whomever the focus group feels warrants an invite.

    Finally bring some folks “on staff” like LD, Yusuf and Nut who seem to be *cough cough* smart and creative (may have to cut my tongue out after that comment) and give them some sort of “free reign” on artistic changes. I wouldn’t mind seeing a new map every month or so myself.

    I am just trying to help these are my suggestions.

    I want to go on record as saying I support Boy for making these changes, since the changs were made I have played more games with real people than I have in months. So whether he did the right thing or not, it at least stirred the pot and a bunch of people I haven’t seen in a while have come back to play so… something had to be done. Maybe it wasn’t the right way of doing it however many of you are playing and following forums again so let’s go from here.

    #58880

    bazzz
    Participant

    Agree with POM, especially on the point of a focus group. It gives people a clear way to post suggestions, if implemented the right way.

    I for one have some ideas about what could be done to attract new players and especially to keep newbies around for longer. It would be nice to have a focus group that seriously wants to work towards making this game better.

    #58881

    BOY
    Participant

    POM, I think you have it right. Anyone who has a verified rank of top 10 in Rounds played on any server should probably be in the group. I don’t know if a test server is really necessary though, we have plenty of servers. 😛

    I privately wrote this, earlier:
    The goal is not to find “better settings” but just to create some variety.

    I think it is unfortunate that in the past we have been so inflexible that the settings must be set in stone and that changin them comes at the cost of a huge bitter discussion. The game has a lot of variety to offer and variety itself is a good thing.

    I agree about Thrax’s servers, he’s got a following because he updates things and changes things. As moderator, I’m taking the liberty to make sure we have a dose of change, what those changes are, and how severe they are, can be put forward by many people. I’m currently discouting the “nothing shall change” comments 😉

    Anyone who quits the game because the scoring mode was changed a little didn’t really like the game that much, imo. So far, I have heard of no one who left. I was serious when I said I wanted to know if anyone was leaving the game because of this.

    #58882

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    @pastor of muppets wrote:

    Secondly if this is the case do an admin Role Call for those that don’t respond suspend their admin privelages except for the admin forum let them post there later why they didn’t respond and then either re-instate them or vote on whether their participation warrants admin status and then make a decision.

    HHhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm, now, where have I heard that before, infact, I’m sure it’s more than just the once too…..

    @pastor of muppets wrote:

    Thirdly form a focus group make a forum where they can post ideas, only the people chosen for the focus group can post there. Let players PM the focus group and put their input in on PM’s then let the focus group discuss what to do. Along with the focus group make a test site for changes one that is only for people who are chosen to test there and that group can decide what changes come into “main” and which do not. This test site can be for veterans, newer regulars, noobs with potential and whomever the focus group feels warrants an invite.

    Definately, this is something I think is vital, the small testing done on the failed tourney server brought up ALOT of different settings that completely altered the entire game, but needed lots of time to tweak with many players testing and passing back info.
    Trying to figure what effect changing $/kill will have is nothing compared to seeing the effect in test games (with people who are there too test, not testing on unsuspecting people, that doesn’t work).

    @pastor of muppets wrote:

    Finally bring some folks “on staff” like LD, Yusuf and Nut who seem to be *cough cough* smart and creative (may have to cut my tongue out after that comment) and give them some sort of “free reign” on artistic changes. I wouldn’t mind seeing a new map every month or so myself.

    Not sure how I crept into deluded mind Mr POM, but please remove me at ONCE!!!
    Now that’s out the way, WTFH are you doing putting me in a lil group with LD and Yus??? Damn Colonials!

    One the topic of Boy being a dictator here atm, I’d have to agree, although I doubt with the same thought as those saying it.
    This game has slowly died due to a mostly inactive creator, admins who nolonger play yet demand to have a say in everything and a lack of agreement on any changes to be made, resulting in a stagnant game.
    It appears to me that Boy is taking on the role of admin and mixing things up again with the hope (I hope) that his fellow admins and players will join up and have everyone steer the game in a better direction.

    I’m not so sure all these changes are helping tho, I’ve checked in several times over the past couple of weeks to see the default servers dead and a few in merge (I don’t like merge much 🙁 ) so have stayed away.

    #58883

    pastor of muppets
    Participant

    Don’t get your panties in a wad britt I said people “like” you guys with creativity and some talent.

    #58884

    Rommel
    Participant

    The changes I have seen in the game are fine with me.

    The change from accecpted practice is understandably bothersome to
    many of you but the control group has been basically non-functional
    for a long time. If BOY had not published better rules, the rules would
    still be subject to abuse. Whatever the reason, the control group is not
    functioning as a unit.

    BOY appears willing to take feedback and make adjustments where
    appropriate. Unless there is a valid argument to make against the
    changes that are being contemplated and/or implemented, I intend
    to try to adapt to the changes and see how it plays.

    Best wishes

    Note to the Moderator : This is splitting up almost as badly as the rules thread.

    I have posts going everywhere.

    #58885

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    Okay, I’ve now finally had a chance to sample the new changes, the following is my response:

    1. The changes will really put off new players.
    1.1. This is due to the fact they can’t play with all the weapons and stand a hope in hells chance of winning.
    1.2. The savers in the game will be far less inclined to gift the newbs as it’ll seriously impact their own game.
    1.3 It appears that the current settings seriously favour the highly accurate and efficient players, even the craziest amount of luck won’t keep newbs off the bottom of the table (except the final score, which isn’t even the final score).

    2. The bot sticks around too long, it should leave after 5 at most. It is also a horrid rank, this will continue to put off the skill whores who won’t play against something that’ll take soo many points off them.

    3. Although I’m aware this is not something easily fixed currently, but the fact the game calculates the winner prior to the final $/score calc means the final screen is meaningless for what the final scores were, this takes much out the game as I used to take joy in beating or being near to certain peers, I don’t really know how close I am anymore.

    4. The scoring is way too dependant of money. This would typically suit my play style as I’m well known for spending very little money for a while (not even buying chutes for several rounds), however, I find myself being forced to continually not spend money, even when the situation should dictate that I should spend (4+ kills with a DH just doesn’t justify the expense).
    Maybe some of these issues will be addressed as the free market slowly adjusts to current server spending habits, however, people may not wait around that long.
    However, I do like the idea of getting points for money saved to bring that into the game more, it’s currently too central to the scoring.

    5. The scores are too high when people join the server. The first time I connected (when there were actually people playing) it was round 7 and POM had over 1500 points. I’m sure I read that the scores were mean’t to be kept low to encourage people to join as it would ‘appear’ like they had a chance.

    Overall, unfortunately, I think the changes in their current form are really bad, however the direction is a good one. Much tweaking could really bring alot of strategy back to this strategy game.

    Good luck Boy (and any other admins that could give a hoot for the past 3 years) and I’m happy to help test changes if you need people.

    #58886

    Rommel
    Participant

    I have laughed so hard and long my sides are hurting.

    (except the final score, which isn’t even the final score).

    I had to stop reading … more soon.

    Update 1 :

    I’ll try to read the rest soon PR but right now,
    I’m afraid it might cause me serious bodily harm.

    “If you miss I must be cheating.” – XTC

    I can’t stop giggling. Perhaps it is just me but I
    find that both the absurd and the truth can cause
    uncontrollable laughter when properly presented.

    Well done and thank you.

    #58887

    BOY
    Participant

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    Okay, I’ve now finally had a chance to sample the new changes, the following is my response:

    1. The changes will really put off new players.
    1.1. This is due to the fact they can’t play with all the weapons and stand a hope in hells chance of winning.
    1.2. The savers in the game will be far less inclined to gift the newbs as it’ll seriously impact their own game.
    1.3 It appears that the current settings seriously favour the highly accurate and efficient players, even the craziest amount of luck won’t keep newbs off the bottom of the table (except the final score, which isn’t even the final score).

    2. The bot sticks around too long, it should leave after 5 at most. It is also a horrid rank, this will continue to put off the skill whores who won’t play against something that’ll take soo many points off them.

    3. Although I’m aware this is not something easily fixed currently, but the fact the game calculates the winner prior to the final $/score calc means the final screen is meaningless for what the final scores were, this takes much out the game as I used to take joy in beating or being near to certain peers, I don’t really know how close I am anymore.

    4. The scoring is way too dependant of money. This would typically suit my play style as I’m well known for spending very little money for a while (not even buying chutes for several rounds), however, I find myself being forced to continually not spend money, even when the situation should dictate that I should spend (4+ kills with a DH just doesn’t justify the expense).
    Maybe some of these issues will be addressed as the free market slowly adjusts to current server spending habits, however, people may not wait around that long.
    However, I do like the idea of getting points for money saved to bring that into the game more, it’s currently too central to the scoring.

    5. The scores are too high when people join the server. The first time I connected (when there were actually people playing) it was round 7 and POM had over 1500 points. I’m sure I read that the scores were mean’t to be kept low to encourage people to join as it would ‘appear’ like they had a chance.

    Overall, unfortunately, I think the changes in their current form are really bad, however the direction is a good one. Much tweaking could really bring alot of strategy back to this strategy game.

    Good luck Boy (and any other admins that could give a hoot for the past 3 years) and I’m happy to help test changes if you need people.

    TY P NUT,

    RESPONSE

    1. If you mean “new to main” ok, I see your point, if you mean “NEW” players, then I do not see your point. Truly new players should be in beginners.

    1.1 Newbs never stood a chance of winning much, never did. This doesn’t change that. Big weapons never gave a noob an advantage over a pro.

    1.2 Gifting. I do not believe charity should ever have been a main part of competing in the server. Never the less, if the style is to be always “friendly gentlemans game” then fine, we can change some things back. As a competitor in every game I play in, I more often than not, frown on gifting. It is more suited to team play.

    2. You have given me an amazing compliment. YOu are actually admitting that luck now has less to do with winning. Again, score one for a real good competition. That is the point. A good fun game can be had by anyone, in any game, no matter the score mode. A skills and efficiency contest is another matter.

    3. score calc bug. I was not aware that the final score was calculated incorrectly, I thought it was only displayed improperly prior to final score. This should be fixed either way.

    4. You are experiencing discomfort with the new scoring, you will find that when you are never comfortable with your position in the game, you improve your game. Give this some time to sink in. I recognize that the score for money is high. This will not always be. 😉

    5. I attempted to fix this earlier, and ultimately this means that people must be saving quite a bit of money. Though, in my personal experience, I never had much of a chance to win the game if joining after round 3 anyway, I would wait to R1 to join up, joining earlier in game is a big advantage, always will be . Interest could be increased and some money awards decreased, as well as more start money to aleviate this. I admit you do have a point on this one.

    #58888

    Rommel
    Participant

    I’m still grinning like a fool as I write this. It wasn’t just the quote from before but all things considered I suppose.

    Having recently played on each of the primary servers for several hours, I have no complaints to register at this time.

    Most if not all of my complaints have been about concrete and well defined issues. To the best of my recollection, none of them have been about my inability to adapt to changes.

    Using our brains to make required adaptations, is the key to survial in real life as well as the game. Thus, I strongly suggest that we use the game and whatever changes are made, to hone our thinking and survival skills for both.

    No matter the changes, stay informed. Information is power. Look for disadvatages to your opponents and advantages for yourself. Modify your play style to get the most from the changes instead of adhering to a play style that places you at a disadvantage.

    The next several years can reasonablly be expected to bring many changes to our lives. Those of us unable to adapt and do it quickly, will suffer and some will suffer dearly.

    Live long and prosper.

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