This topic contains 56 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Viking62 9 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #48253

    KTM Rider
    Participant

    You misunderstand me. My comment was of how ungodly high of a price peltier cooling is. No way that I could allow myself to spend that much.

    Those are bloody good ideas, though. I take it that you work on stuff like this?

    Your talking about ducting raises an interesting question in my mind. Does fan ducting cut down on CFM? If it doesn’t to too much of an extreme, that might be a good way to direct the (non-vibration) sound signature. Foam insulate the duct….

    I’ll have to be forced to add that comment to my Sig, if you don’t mind.

    #48254

    Rommel
    Participant

    Hi Again KTM:

    No, I don’t mind if you quote me. It will remind me of your kind words and make me smile whenever I see a post from you.

    @KTM Rider wrote:

    You misunderstand me. My comment was of how ungodly high of a price peltier cooling is. No way that I could allow myself to spend that much.

    Those are bloody good ideas, though. I take it that you work on stuff like this?

    Your talking about ducting raises an interesting question in my mind. Does fan ducting cut down on CFM? If it doesn’t to too much of an extreme, that might be a good way to direct the (non-vibration) sound signature. Foam insulate the duct….

    I’ll have to be forced to add that comment to my Sig, if you don’t mind.

    I’m not sure about the total cost but I was thinking about building a TEC cooler instead of using a prebuilt industrial chiller. If you haven’t checked the prices, the cost of a few loose TECs paired with double heat sinks might surprise you.

    Inexpensive, high flow rate fans should be fine for prototyping the cooling design and will afford you the option of trying a few different flow rates without investing a great deal of money trying to determine the minimum flow rate required for your design. This would also give you an opprtunity to check the sound deadening qualities of the enclosure against several db ratings, make modifications and finally determine the maximum db rating your case can effectively silence.

    There are quieter fans available (better bearings and blade design) but you may find that a cheap fan that seldom, if ever, runs at more than half speed will quietly keep your machine cool even under full load. Once you’ve accurately determined how much air you have to move to keep your machine running cool in your most extreme test case you can purchase more expensive fans with the confidence gained by knowing how your system will perform.

    You’ve certainly spiked my interest in this topic again (thanks) and I hope to see sometime soon that you have a working model. You might want to delay the beer can chiller-holder idea you’ve been contemplating building into the top, until you’re sure you’ve got a combination that keeps your machine cool with pleanty of fan speed in reserve. Unless you think it would be better to build a can cooler first and then design a case around that. 😉

    I envison a spring loaded, sealed, sliding door that opens into the cold side of the supply duct. As you slide back the door and insert your can you hear the whisper of the fans as they kick into high speed and say to yourself, “It’s good to be home.” Remove your can and the spring closes the door for you in case you’ve gotten a little too tipsy to remember. 😯 Had to came back and add this: An old cd drive could be fashioned to function as the door operator for the can cooler and be made to operate electronically using the motion detector in that singing bass you’ve got hidden in the basement. 😛

    I use to work in industrial robotics and have worked on a few cooling issues but have only gotten to play with a few demo TEC units. 🙁 I’m certainly not an expert, not even close, but hopefully our discussion here will help put you in touch with someone more learned in the art of applying the laws of thermodynamics to TECs.

    I just replaced both of the fans in my Qosmio a couple of weeks ago but prior to finding a good deal on them I started working out some plans for a forced air cooling box that should have eliminated the need for the internal fans. Considering I got better than 2 years out of the original pair and bought 2 of each, I will not be completing my project box.

    Yes, you are correct. Anytime you restrict the opening, or create additional friction, you reduce the CFM the fan nominally moves (running unrestricted in free air). This effect can be reduced by ensuring that the smallest internal area of the duct is at least as large as the area of the smallest port (still lose flow due to friction with the walls) and by keeping the ducts as short, straight and as smooth as reasonably possible. Reducing the amount of flow lost to resistance is a good idea as long as you don’t have to sacrifice cooling or proper filtration to do it. If the fan being tested can’t provide adaquate flow with your best design then stepping up to the next flow rate would be in order even if you have to use one a little louder.

    That seems humerous sitting here listening to the hum of the new fans, knowing full well that they wil burn up early due to the back pressure created as the coolers stop up due to the lack of filtration. The first time they died was just after the one year warrenty had expired but I was able to nurse them along for better than a year after that by periodically opening the case and cleaning the fans and the heat exchangers. The last couple of weeks of December, before I found a decent price on the fans, I kept a vacuum cleaner handy so I could suck start the fans every couple of hours when they would refuse to run. Not too bad for a 2 GHz laptop that runs pretty much 24-7 with only two tiny fans and no filters.

    Perhaps you want to extend the cold air duct down to the bottom of the box to use directed cooling and you’ve positioned the hot air exhaust at the top to maximize the heat removal. You determine that a 20 CFM fan will cool your case efficiency but it’s a little too loud. A 16 CFM fan is requiring the maximum voltage to the TECs with the fan running all of the time. Then it hits you, 💡 the voltage to the TECs could be reduced while increasing overall cooling if the cold air duct was cut off just past the heat exchangers to increase the flow rate. Well that might be a good idea except most of the cold air is now being sucked out the exhaust port instead of cooling the components.

    Using accoustic foam inside the cold side (only) might be effective at reducing the noise level but it will increase the friction. I do not have a clue about the ratio of resistance to db level reduction for the various sound deadener – fan combinations but I think that a smooth surface would generally be better inside of a plenum as increasing the turbulence reduces the flow and acoustic foam in the hot side might not last very long. 😉

    Theoretically the db level reduction of accoustic foam (LARGE suface area) should be superior to a smooth sound insulator but if the fan has to work harder to overcome the increased resistance, it’s usage (depending on the fan) could have the opposite effect and result in a net db level increase (I find it doubtful that a short span of foam would create a dramatic differnce in the flow). Perhaps some scap, flat rectangular duct insulation (inside the duct type), concrete backing board or acoustic ceiling tile would work nicely inside of both ducts for starters.

    To further reduce the db level and reduce the likelyhood of cooking the fan(s), you might want to consider using some form of vibration isolation (3/8″ fuel line might work nicely) to seal the fans into the cold side of the heat exchanger box exhaust duct. The reason I’m not advocating the intake duct is the potential for condensation on the fan if positioned too close to the heat exchangers. The warm side would be closer to the port making it harder to silence.

    Geeze Louise, I didn’t mean to write a book, I just seem to get carried away sometimes.

    Good luck I’ve got to go eat something,

    Rommel

    P.S. It’s quite possible that you could come up with something marketable (even it’s only the specs, blueprints, parts list and the supliers) and these messages are available on the search engines. Don’t laugh too fast, Google use to be a dream in a garage with a few servers and a full time connection and now they can blackmail the world !!! 😛 If you want to continue this discussion, I’ll join back in if you start a new thread but I think I’ve stomped on PeanutsRevenge’s thread too much as it is. If you prefer, feel free to PM me anytime and I’ll gladly share whatever I find, come up with or can remember.

    #48255

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    I may have something to add here. Forgive me if this is off topic, Rommel. I scanned through most of your posts, but I don’t have the time or inclination to read them properly.

    Anyway, I’ve got some experience with this (office and home pc’s). Silent computers are kind of my thing.

    Things have changed a lot in recent years. (Heat-pipe coolers, silent fans, “cool and quiet” technology and its equivalents). The market caught on 3 or 4 years back and PC heat build up/noise isn’t the problem it used to be.

    Use of any ducting, fan grills or acoustic insulation, is counterproductive. Silent fans are a precise science. Anything impeding airflow will increase noise and compound the problem. A far better option is to select cool running components to begin with. Take advantage of the new thermal power ratings on CPU’s etc.

    For the cost of your average water or peltier cooling solution, you could buy the next CPU model up, underclock it and cool it with silent air.

    #48256

    Viking62
    Participant

    This is my recent build-With help from my friends here @ Scorched.UK–>You can see the build specs @ Offtopic / Gaming/Dual Purpose PC Building. I will let you all know how it does with Scorched3d/Crysis, & Call Of Duty…war chest. I am waiting on a 22″ lcd monitor……Then I will test da poop outta this pc 😆

    *NOTE* The PCWizard final benchmark results are not a joke (I have not manipulated them in any way) I am an honorable Viking after all………Yep–>42k+ 42,000+ final score—Going to clock the vid card later-see if I can hit 50k 😉

    #48257

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    nice you got a G0 as well

    GREAT news when it comes to overclocking.
    G0 = overclockers dream

    #48258

    Viking62
    Participant

    Agreed Nut–I had to run the machine one more time to try to break da 50k PCWizard 2008 barrier……….Q6600 Go stepping cpu Rocks!! G-skill memory not bad either…….

    @peanutsrevenge wrote:

    nice you got a G0 as well

    GREAT news when it comes to overclocking.
    G0 = overclockers dream


    I picked the option….Optimized defaults in the AbitIX38QuadGT bios…..Then picked performance in the Nvidia Control Panel……….Cleaned & defragged the HDD……….Then trimmed down my startup programs to the only ones I want running @ system start-up. I performed no Overclocking whatsoever on this machine *Actually seems a bit underclocked*

    Check these numbers out–>”I am amazed once again”!! 😯

    #48259

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    You really need to find a better benchmarking tool to put ya faith in.

    Already established it overly prefers multi – core than actual processing ability, but look at the cache and memory results, im running CHEAP 667 memory here.

    #48260

    Laptops Daddy
    Participant

    peanuts, i suspect you’re overclocked. what’s your fsb? are you stable?

    viking, maybe you should look at ram timings. your’re probably auto set to very loose timings (probably something like 5-5-5-18). you should be cool for 4-4-4-12. may need to increase voltage a bit.

    #48261

    Viking62
    Participant

    I noticed something….. Next to the graphs–My benchmark shows experience rating–Your bench says synthetic. What is up with that? & yes, I need to run something more the norm of benchmarking venues…….But, the ones I’ve seen would take me 10+ hours to download on dial-up 😥

    #48262

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    Ever heard of computer magazines?

    The One I tend to get – PC Format always comes with a DVD and MOST of the time has 3dmark and PCmark 06 on….

    They did a benchmarking special the other month, came with a fair few benchmarking tools.

    #48263

    dexterschumi
    Participant

    Here are my pc’s benchmark

    #48264

    PeanutsRevenge
    Participant

    @dexterschumi wrote:

    Here are my pc’s benchmark

    and your pc is?

    #48265

    Viking62
    Participant

    Hello all- I just built another computer, ‘for a friend of my daughter’.I ran PC Wizard 2008 & hit 6200+ on the overall rating. I cranked the cpu from 2.2 ghz up to 2.7ghz(can run @ 3.1ghz)voltage increased to 1.375 or so/1066 FSB/memory voltage increased to 1.950(shows equal to DDR2-900)/5 cas memory timings/Windows base score is 5.5 out of a possible 5.9 maximum.*System stable & runs very cool* CPU temperature steady @ 89 degrees F.


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