This topic contains 72 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  mooic 11 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #4810

    Willis
    Participant

    Sorry, I really mean not to jack your topic BOY.. but it seems we are either disagreeing or agreeing under fine lines.. so I wish to reAMP the poll and conditions, and ask again.

    Do we need new admins on the beginner server? I may have added options besides ‘beginner only’ .. but please explain why you choose them.

    Otherwise again, not the forums, not the main, not the teams server. Just considering beginner.

    Question for Gavin:
    Currently, are the three servers independant for thier admin lists, or do each feed off the same list?

    If they are combined, how hard would it be to seperate them? How hard would it be to seperate for the management ports?

    —-

    Personally, as I have mentioned already, this is the only way I can see us needing admins. The beginner server has a population of players that greatly exceeds the MAIN or TEAMS servers… and with the lower count of admins present in beginner, I can understand why the idea of more was brought up.

    Anyway.. I really hope we can put this topic to action or put it to bed.

    -Willis

    #33507

    imported_gcamp
    Participant

    Question for Gavin:
    Currently, are the three servers independant for thier admin lists, or do each feed off the same list?

    If they are combined, how hard would it be to seperate them? How hard would it be to seperate for the management ports?

    Currently all servers share the same admins.
    This can be easily changed to different admins for different servers, if required.

    #33508

    JiNx
    Participant

    yes i think that more admins are needed, i have voted yes on both and i have pm my list to boy aswell

    i have asked before whether i can be one and i no i have to be patient and that there are others waiting inline aswell

    just going back recently there was a post ref rules and a player not being happy with a certain instance ref zebelion certainly more admins in beginners may have stopped this certain incident

    #33509

    BigBear
    Participant

    I voted for more admins on both servers.

    First of all there as mentioned before there is the question about admins available per time zone. Interestingly so far everyone who has stated that there might not need be more admins are located in the US. This has been pointed out by several people (not based in the US, big surprise!!!) but has largely been ignored so far.

    Secondly the only reason I can see for splitting the admin in two groups would be that the current admins are not interested in starting involving themselves in the ‘beginners’ server. No matter how you filter the stats there is no way anyone can state that the current admins as a group spend much time on ‘beginners’. Actually most admins spend no time at all there. Some have never ever been there. Appointing ‘beginners-only’ admins is a joke. How about having more game admins that act like game admins instead?

    #33510

    cbx550f
    Participant

    @bigbear wrote:

    . Actually most admins spend no time at all there. Some have never ever been there. Appointing ‘beginners-only’ admins is a joke. How about having more game admins that act like game admins instead?

    I do visit the beginners server on occasion, but I rarely stay long, as I get restless with the pace (it’s often really slow) 😉

    I agree with your sentiment, BB, and I’ll keep it in mind.

    Thanks

    @The Poll wrote:

    No, and we don’t need them anywhere else. (avoide this unless you must!)

    Not sure I follow this exactly, does “don’t need them anywhere else” mean “don’t need more”, or “don’t need admins at all”?

    cbx

    #33511

    Willis
    Participant

    @cbx550f wrote:

    @The Poll wrote:

    No, and we don’t need them anywhere else. (avoide this unless you must!)

    Not sure I follow this exactly, does “don’t need them anywhere else” mean “don’t need more”, or “don’t need admins at all”?

    cbx

    The second, “don’t need more, at all”.

    no way anyone can state that the current admins as a group spend much time on ‘beginners’

    Not being denyed… As I’ve said on various occasions, I myself don’t go there intentionally.

    The reason lyes in the name of the server. It’s a ‘beginner’ server.

    #33512

    BigBear
    Participant

    @willis:
    Regarding ‘beginners’ it was some time ago since it could be viewed as such besides the name. In version 39 we had 29 players exeeding the +500 kill mark (39 on main). In version 39 series 2 it was 74 (51 on main) and so far in version 40 we have 30 (8 on main) players making that particular mark. No offense, but you are a game admin are you not? Should it really matter even if there was only noobs around on this server?

    @ admins in general:
    Many players tend to stick to ‘beginners’, especially in this version when the traffic on main has dropped. This trend has not been followed when it comes to admin attention. Now I understand that you want to play with the pepole you know because the whole point is having fun right? Nevertheless, being an admin gives you certain powers and as always with power responsibilities will inevitably follow. Beginner server or not, you should be there.

    This brings an old topic to mind (if you don’t have the energy to read it the question was what role do admins and the community play when it comes to issues that doesn’t involve Gavin). Has anything changed at all after that (except for an altered version of ‘Guidelines’ in the game admin forum)? Today considering this thread + BOY’s two threads I might as well include issues that will have to go through Gavin. Can anyone tell me what is going to happen with these discussions. Right now I’m kind of expecting a few more days of sparse posting before the whole thing fades away. Then nothing will happen and if it does it will likely be an announcement of something decided in game admin private. I certainly realize that all the efforts made by admins are made in your free time and I’m not expecting this place to be running like a well oiled coorporate machinery. It’s just that I can’t see any structure or synchronization at all. I may or may not be very wrong but the admin community seem very fragmented and driven by individual impulses and interests (just like the player community in fact) to me. Through experience I don’t expect a lot of feedback on this last section, but I would still like to ask that you consider these words for yourselves.

    ***EDIT*** Wrote this before reading the latest responses on the forum upgrade thread, so I guess I should tone down my suspicions of nothing happening a bit. 😳

    #33513

    imported_gcamp
    Participant

    @bigbear wrote:

    It’s just that I can’t see any structure or synchronization at all. I may or may not be very wrong but the admin community seem very fragmented and driven by individual impulses and interests (just like the player community in fact) to me.

    The admin structure is very flat at the moment, all admins have the same powers. That is total game server control and forum moderation.

    As you say, in the end its up to me to implement some of the more complex ideas (and to add/remove admins). As for when and what to do, due to my lack of game hours I tend to leave server decisions to the Admins.

    Like everything I try to make this process as open as possible.

    What type of structure would you like to see implemented?

    How would you suggest we choose reliable/mature admins?

    #33514

    BigBear
    Participant

    @gcamp wrote:

    The admin structure is very flat at the moment, all admins have the same powers. That is total game server control and forum moderation.

    As you say, in the end its up to me to implement some of the more complex ideas (and to add/remove admins). As for when and what to do, due to my lack of game hours I tend to leave server decisions to the Admins.

    Like everything I try to make this process as open as possible.

    What type of structure would you like to see implemented?

    How would you suggest we choose reliable/mature admins?

    I like the flat structure as such. I for one would certainly not want a hierarcial structure for the admin group. What I do believe is that the flat stucture requires that the admins act as a group and that everyone pull their weight so to speak. Now, I don’t mean a super beurocracy where every little detail needs to be discussed and decided by the collective. However, it would be a benefit to everyone I believe if certain general guidelines for conduct were drawn. For example what matters can be handelled individually and which matters requires the groups attention. Let me list some suggestions:

    * The admin group should be split between game/forum admins. No restriction should be imposed on acting as both, but I don’t think you should be by default.

    * Beeing a forum admins is mainly an administrative role that doesn’t need many members. As I see it a small group could stay fixed for as long as they read and moderate the forums on a regular basis.

    * Game admins is a different issue. There should be some sort of requirements list in terms of game activity, acting on issues during games , contributing to admin discussions and so on and so forth. If one of the admins does not live up to the requirements they will be given a ‘warning’. If the admin still cannot live up to these requirements they would be replaced. They would still be eligable as a candidate for the open spot. These requeiments should be applied on current admins too. However loosing game admin privileges won’t necessary imply that he/she would loose his forum admin powers. In addition I believe the different timezones should be better represented. Perhaps by dividing the world in 3 ‘time slots’ relative to GMT and having equal admin representation for people playing in each ‘slot’. It doesn’t matter where the admins are located as long as there are enough people in each ‘time slot’.

    * Clear guidelines for admin conduct needs to be implemented. The current guidlines are too ambiguous. For example right now a player could be banned for using foul language even if by common sence nobody will be. Perhaps some “generic” definitions when a certain “punishment” should be applied would be in order. For example banning should be discussed (perhaps polls on game admin private) before carried out to avoid disagreement and damage control from unlawful bans. Obviously you cannot cover all the possible cases which is why such guidlines need to be a living document that adapts with new situations.

    * The admin group should consult between themselves before posting or making anything “offical”, like official polls or announcements. Those issues need to contain a clear message saying that this poll/issue is the “official”. Any new thread can be started about the argument, but the reference for all the members would still be the official one (execpt a few rare cases wich would be revisited).

    *An issue CANNOT be brought up multiple times “officially”. I belive people get tired of repeating the same opinions continously. In any case the original issue will still be open for additions.

    * Once an admin take action against a player, no further action can be applied to that player for the same exact offence (revisiting penalties after new events is a different issue, but i belive this should be discussed by all the admins first).

    * When it comes to selecting game admin candidates I have a suggestion. Candidates would be presented by starting an official poll (preferably through the in game polls). To be accepted the candidate would need support from a qualified majority (2/3) of the active players (played more than 2 hours during the last month which should be easy to validate).

    Sincerely,

    Big Bear

    P.S. I would like to give credit to Brain Damage who shares many of my thoughts on this issue and helped me greatly in composing this post. D.S.

    P.S.S. Please view these suggestions as a base for discussion and not as ridgid requests. D.S.S.

    #33515

    BOY
    Participant

    would have replied sooner, but I am on vacation 😀

    cbx raises an issue I’ve had before. I dont go there cuz it is the “beginner” server 😛

    I’d say prolly just beginner server admins are needed.

    l8r

    #33516

    BigBear
    Participant

    @boy wrote:

    would have replied sooner, but I am on vacation 😀

    Enjoy! 🙂

    @boy wrote:

    cbx raises an issue I’ve had before. I dont go there cuz it is the “beginner” server 😛

    So? As I said to Willis: Are you not admins on ALL official servers? I thought that being admin was an honour with a certain level of responsibility attached. So far the admins who have responded to this issue seems to be of a different opinion (at least when it comes to what those responsibilities are). Not to mention that since ver 39 series 2 at least ‘beginners’ has been a beginner server in name ONLY. Why it is so is a different matter though.

    @boy wrote:

    I’d say prolly just beginner server admins are needed.

    No matter what method you use to recruit additional admins complete rookies are out of the running. Hence, by your own reasoning about the ‘beginner’ server it would be impossible to find anyone suitable. And if the current admins are not interested in supervising ‘beginners’, what makes you think that anyone else with the proper qualifications for being admin will? There might be people that are desperate enough to be an admin that they would agree to anything to get the admin tag, but if so they should not have been considered in the first place. There is an important difference between wanting to be admin and accepting a request from your peers showing their trust and confidence in you.

    #33517

    BOY
    Participant

    Well, the admins are fans of the game, just like anyone else. They were all mostly admins before the Beginner server was created. So, naturally most of them play at the Main server first. 😕

    Most, in fact (including me – although my rank is quite low) do occasionally play or admin the beginners server from the external management port.

    The issue you raised about responsibility is a rather serious comment…. Why do you think I started these friggin topics 🙂 Ya, more people are needed to step up. We admins do alright ‘we manage’ wouldn’t be a bad motto, but gradually the servers have changed. So, admins should too. 🙂

    as far as where the admins are added, I’d say you’re right. For ensuring they are committed to the community, they probly should admin at all servers. I simply think that the need for admins is greatest at the Beginners server. Thats not hard to swallow is it?

    As for the name, I am all for chagning the name. In fact, many months ago I advocated this, since it really does not fit the bill. That is simply the name Gavin came up with. What I think really was more needed was an effective TRAINING SERVER. One that was a bit like the tutorial mode. However, as I’ve said elsewhere, the server has a life of its own now.

    #33518

    BOY
    Participant

    I went ahead and voted. For “all servers”

    It simply would not do to have an admin try to chase a nasty player around the servers if he were only admin at one of them.

    #33519

    Irishbandit
    Participant

    @boy wrote:

    I went ahead and voted. For “all servers”

    It simply would not do to have an admin try to chase a nasty player around the servers if he were only admin at one of them.

    Had not thought of that good one boy.

    #33520

    BigBear
    Participant

    @boy wrote:

    Well, the admins are fans of the game, just like anyone else. They were all mostly admins before the Beginner server was created. So, naturally most of them play at the Main server first. 😕

    I’m certainly NOT trying to say that the admins shouldn’t enjoy the game. That would not be a good solution and would probably mean that noone would want to take on that role at all!

    @boy wrote:

    Most, in fact (including me – although my rank is quite low) do occasionally play or admin the beginners server from the external management port.

    Don’t know what to say really other than that I think more effort (= more ppl I suppose) would be desireable.

    @boy wrote:

    The issue you raised about responsibility is a rather serious comment…. Why do you think I started these friggin topics 🙂 Ya, more people are needed to step up. We admins do alright ‘we manage’ wouldn’t be a bad motto, but gradually the servers have changed. So, admins should too. 🙂

    Sorry but I’m not quite clear about what you are trying to say so I’ll refrain from commenting.

    @boy wrote:

    as far as where the admins are added, I’d say you’re right. For ensuring they are committed to the community, they probly should admin at all servers. I simply think that the need for admins is greatest at the Beginners server. Thats not hard to swallow is it?

    No it is not hard to swallow at all. I agree that the need is greatest on ‘beginners’. I just think all game admins should share that workload equally.

    @boy wrote:

    As for the name, I am all for chagning the name. In fact, many months ago I advocated this, since it really does not fit the bill. That is simply the name Gavin came up with. What I think really was more needed was an effective TRAINING SERVER. One that was a bit like the tutorial mode. However, as I’ve said elsewhere, the server has a life of its own now.

    Personally ‘beginners’ has had a number of different meanings and uses over time. For me it truly was a beginners server when I joined and hooked up with more experienced players teaching me the basics of shooting and tactics. I moved on quite quickly to main but lingered on to an extent for practice since being good on ‘beginners’ doesn’t mean that you will automatically hack it on main. Later it has been an alternative server to get a scorched fix when main was temporarily deserted. It has its pros and cons but from my own experience I believe it can still fill a place as the recruiting grounds for some of the future great scorchers.

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